Talk:Active Meditation
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[edit] Osho in CAPITALS?
Osho in CAPITALS seems rude and unnatural. I know that's how pune people are trademarking and publishing names of meditations. But doesn't seem fit from a general and encyclopedia point of view. ??? 210.94.41.89 10:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Quotes are necessary
Meditation, just like science, does not need any belief/trust in the inventor. Still, the inventor is the best person to explain. This is specially true for meditation, because the inventor has an inner experience that the encyclopedia writer does not have. So it is good to understand it in inventor's words. Regarding copyright, the quotes are from website, but the speaker himself was not in favor of copyright on his words. Yes, osho.com claims copyright, but oshoworld.com publishes a really huge amount of him talks for free and without any copyright notice. So if we copy from oshoworld.com, there is no liability on our part.
In speaker's own words, "Things can be copyrighted, thoughts cannot be copyrighted, and certainly meditations cannot be copyrighted. They are not things of the marketplace. Nobody can monopolize anything. But perhaps the West cannot understand the difference between an objective commodity and an inner experience. For ten thousand years the East has been meditating and nobody has put trademarks upon meditations.”
The reason why I am insisting on quotes is that I or anyone else cannot explain it as well as he explained. Or can we create an article in wikiquote just containing Osho's explanation of Active Meditation, and link it from here?
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kamal006 (talk • contribs) 09:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC).
- It is an oft-repeated untruth that Osho was against copyright on his own works, but that does not make it the truth. For one, it is easy to verify that all of the books printed in his lifetime were printed with a copyright (plus often trademark) notice. Secondly, he also said, specifically on this topic,
Now there are many countries.... Just yesterday, a Korean woman was here, and she informed us that more than thirty of my books are translated into Korean, and thousands of copies are available in all the bookstalls all over the country. We have to take care of things. There are countries which are not members of the Bern Convention: they do not believe in copyright. Korea is one of those that do not believe in copyright, so they can translate any book, publish any book. But we can at least keep an eye that the translation is done rightly, that the person who is doing the translation understands me. It is not only a question of copyright, it is a question that I should not be presented in a wrong way -- which is possible. Osho, Light on the Path
- This clearly indicates that Osho was aware of copyright and wanted some control exercised, even in countries like Korea where there was no legal means to enforce it. Likewise, Osho was well aware of royalty arrangements with publishers. And while it is true that oshoworld and others host many copyrighted texts with impunity, they are still technically in breach of copyright.
For the sake of record and completeness, Osho also said, "You don't understand what meditation is. It is nobody's belonging, possession. You cannot have any copyright. Perhaps if your country gives you trademarks and copyrights on things like meditation, then it will be good to have a copyright on stupidity. That will help the whole world to be relieved... Only you will be stupid and nobody else can be stupid; it will be illegal." kammal 13:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- As for the quotes' presence here, I agree that it went beyond what a balanced encyclopedia article should contain; and given that interested readers can find the relevant information in the External Links provided, I think the article is better as it stands. That does not mean that more information could not be added, including a quote of proportionate size. :-) Or like you say, add the quote to the Wikiquote article, and add a link to it here. What is your view on the merge suggestion? Jayen466 11:06, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, so the main concern is mis-representation, and not strict copyright as commercial people want. And adding quotes instead of rewording them addresses this concern. Rewording may be misrepresentation, but quoting won't be, unless someone tampers with the quotes.
- Osho was "commercial" enough to refer in discourse to the fact that he contributed millions in royalties to the funding of his commune. And misrepresentation can also occur by the addition of extraneous material, interpretations, etc., that overwhelm the actual quote; or by the deletion of context that gives sense to the quote. I've seen both. However, this was not an issue here, and anyway, I think what we had in terms of quotes would have been covered by fair use if there had been a clear attribution to Osho as the author and to the book that the quote was taken from. Jayen466 17:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Regarding merging with Dynamic, sometimes the choice is between the "encyclopedia style" and a sensible style. It makes sense to keep them separate, but again what about the encyclopedia style, since both the articles are pretty small. If we merge, will a search of "Dynamic Meditation" redirect to "Active Meditation"? And if we are going to add content to Dynamic Meditation article, again I guess it will be quotes from Osho, and again the same issue :-) kamal 06:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
- The Redirect could easily be made, but I think it is okay the way we have it. Dynamic Meditation has special status, being the first and most widely known of his techniques, and being the term most commonly referred to in the literature (in Google, "dynamic meditation" + Osho gives more hits than "active meditation" + Osho, even though Active Meditation is the generic term). Jayen466 17:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- Hmm, then i think we should have them separate...kammal 06:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Suggestion to merge Active Meditation and Dynamic Meditation
I would rather keep Dynamic Meditation and Active Meditation as two separate entries. Dynamic Meditation is the earliest and probably the most well-known of the Active Meditation techniques by far; having a separate page for it creates room to describe the various stages involved. Jayen466 17:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
- just wanted to say thanks for the recent changes to this article. the quotes had copyright issues, as they were from a website, and the tonality was POV. i was considering a rework, as well as afd (list+lack or refs), but it now seems to be in wiki order. the_undertow talk 03:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
