Talk:Absolute monarchy

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[edit] Criticism

Does anyone else think the examples section is NPOV? It reads like a freshman or high school paper, overall, and a biased one at that. "X was a successful absolute monarch" is not how an encyclopedic article should look. Nach0king 01:24, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I was going to express the same sentiment as Nach0king, but it seems as if I will just echo theirs. There are no links anywhere (wiki or otherwise) within that section and reads, as Nach0king already mentioned, like an essay. It also contradicts a part of the article that talks about the English kings being ultimately unsuccessful at running an absolutist monarchy. hellenica 13:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that some of the interpretation is a bit one-sided, and it would probably be a good idea to take out the assessments of the competence of various absolute monarchs. For instance, while Louis XIV may have been successful at ring power in his lifetime, some historians contend that the financial extravagance and political system he established laid the foundations for the French monarchy's collapse. I think it's worth mentioning that however competent some absolute monarchs may have been, their achievements are often undone by their successors, or by a changing politico-economic climate.

For me, the main problem with the "examples" section is the un-encyclopedic quality of the language. I think some bits should be rewritten, but don't delete it per se. By the way, I deleted the offensive language left at this point on the talk page and I hope whoever wrote it has been blocked. Walton monarchist89 10:51, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

  • In my opinion this page is a joke! It seems focused upon current geo-political conditions(Nothing desperately wrong with that, although historically there have been far more absolutists!) and written from an obviously western-jaundiced and republican POV (Something wrong with this!) I believe that Sharia Law is a form of law... whether you agree with it or not... For example I believe that in Saudi Arabis the 'Ulema are still important... THIS ARTICLE IS RUBBISH!

"The sovereign is expected to act according to custom" (How meaningless, aren't they also expected to in constitutional monarchies?), "in an absolute monarchy there is no constitution or body of law above what is decreed by the sovereign (king or queen)" (So... how does monarchy exist... a constitution, or law for that matter, is not a "piece of paper"). "As a theory of civics," (eh?) "absolute monarchy puts total trust in well-bred and well-trained monarchs raised for the role from birth."(Even in Anti-Deluvian concepts, such as the Divine Right of Kings, usually Monarchs would claim a form of Apostolic sucession or suchlike ((e.g. James VI and I)), not "good breeding"! Just like in the case of the Ottomans they tended to declare themselves to be "Gaziya", a holy warrior) "In theory, an absolute monarch has total power over his or her people and land, including the aristocracy and sometimes the clergy (... has any Absolute monarch EVER claimed that?!)" Jezze 05:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hutt River Province Principality

Shouldn't Hutt River Province Principality be added to the list of absolute monarchies? effeietsanders 23:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

No. It is not a recognized sovereign state.--L. Pistachio 04:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] James I & Charles I

Did an edit to phrasing in this bit; while James I and Charles I may have attempted to import the idea of the Divine Right of Kings (James in particular) a large part of the current thinking in History is that neither were directly trying to establish absolute rule by doing so, although admittedly the threat of absolutism did cause suspicion and fear amongst the Commons and some nobility. While many interpretations disagree on what Charles I was up to I'd say it's open to debate. Jezze 23:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Add Hoppe to Theories and History?

I was thinking about adding Hans-Hermann Hoppe's argument in "Democracy: the God that Failed" to the Theories and History section. The reasons not to seem to be that no monarch has used Hoppe's theory to justify his rule and that Hoppe was not ultimately arguing for monarchy. But it is an original and important contribution. I think I'll write something up unless someone objects.Atripodi 12:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect from Royal autocracy

Ive created the page Royal autocracy, and redirected it here. Im not sure how common the term is, but at least it got 2,100 google hits, so I thought it might be a good idea to create a page for it.

However, are the terms Royal autocracy and Absolute monarchy the same thing? As a novis, I would say that they match, but there might be slite differences between the meanings of the words that could justify an own page for Royal autocracy.

Comments?

--Screensaver 09:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vatican City not Legitimately a "Monarchy" in the Context of This Article

This is a very small point, but although the pope is the head of his "state", the Vatican should not be included as a monarchy for the purposes of this article. Statehood in this case is merely an internationally recognized protection against influences by or forced allegiance to a geo-political entity. To compare the Vatican - with no significant land, no obliged subjects, no secure income and absolutely no enforcement of law - to a country like Saudi Arabia is a bit misleading. Susie-q-luvs-u 22:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, one distinguishes between the Holy See and the Vatican City State. The former is not meaningfully a monarchy, but the very point of having a Vatican City State is to be a territorial state through which the Holy See conducts some of its relations with the world's temporal powers. As such it comes equipped with most of the traditional accessories of statehood, such as the power to enter international treaties and so forth, and it certainly makes sense to speak about the decision processes that work this power, in the same terminology that is otherwise used to describe what makes territorial states tick. As such, it would not make sense to classify the Vatican City State as anything but an absolute (but elective) monarchy. –Henning Makholm 23:28, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fixes

1) Someone had put SEXISGOOD after the napolean link...fixed it Invader05 00:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Constitutional monarchies?

I kinda disagree with the statement that Jordan and Morocco moved to a constitutional monarchy. In both cases, the king still has absolute power. The "constitutional" part being a mere cloak to silence the West. You can call a cat a dove all you want, it won't make it fly. Seriously, that bit gotta be removed, or at the very least, made more explicit as to not let the reader under the impression that the parliaments in those countries have anything more than a figurative role. I'm respectfully running this by the community first in the hope to find a consensus. Lixy 16:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you cite your sources? We do need verification of that. (And how do you sign these comments?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.60.88 (talk) 06:08, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Theories and History section

Isn't history full of pre-Medieval examples of absolute monarchy? What about Pharoahs, Roman emperors, Mayan kings, etc. Were these monarchies not absolute? -- Minaker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.119.100.224 (talk) 11:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I think this section is substantially wrong on two accounts. Firstly, I don't think the claim that the king was "first among equals" in the nobility is right. There was a definite hierarchy in medieval society. Some nobles outranked others, and the king was certainly above everyone else. Secondly, the assertion that the declining power of cavalry in battle meant that noblemen were less powerful is absurd. Most armies thereafter were still led by the aristocracy, regardless of troop composition (this was the case even during the First World War). 88.111.89.112 17:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)Revolver66

[edit] Absolute monarchy is absolutism

Absolute monarchy is not absolutism. Absolutism is a period in European history just after feudalism. It is characterized by the end of feudal partitionship, consolidating of power with the monarch, rise of state power, unification of the state and decrease in influence of nobility. It of course uses laws. Absolutist monarchs are Louis XIII and XIV in France, Ivan the Terrible in Russia etc. All about 16th century.--Dojarca 09:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

According to whose definition? According to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, absolutism is "A political theory holding that all power should be vested in one ruler or other authority. A form of government in which all power is vested in a single ruler or other authority." According to WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University, absolutism is "1. dominance through threat of punishment and violence 2. a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.) 3. the principle of complete and unrestricted power in government." A word can be defined in different ways. What is your reference or source? --RisingSunWiki 23:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

There is an external link at the Wikipedia article Absolutism (European history); it is an article written by Professor Steeves at Stetson University. The first line states, "Absolute monarchy or absolutism meant that the sovereign power or ultimate authority in the state rested in the hands of a king who claimed to rule by divine right." My interpretation of this sentence is that the terms "absolutism" and "absolute monarchy" can be used interchangeably. Furthermore, I checked my university notes from a course I took on the French Revolution, and according to my notes, the professor used "absolutism" and "absolute monarchy" interchangeably as well. So I must conclude, unless I see more compelling evidence, that you original post is false. --RisingSunWiki 20:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] european countries in the medieval times

Can anyone find out if most European countries during the medieval times were absolute monarchies?--Dark paladin x (talk) 20:06, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

That depends on who you ask and where you draw the line. The Roman Empire had developed an official ideology of absolute monarchy, which was remembered well enough through the medieval ages that many kings would assert that those ideas applied to them. However, such assertions seldom had any great or lasting effect. It seems not to have been be uncommon that the high nobles would tacitly allow the king to style himself absolute lord of all he surveyed, in official documents, as long as he behaved himself! In many cases it is a matter of scholarly disagreement today whether such documents should be taken as face value.
The period that is most often described as the heyday of European absolute monarchy was from about 1600 to 1918, solidly after the middle ages. –Henning Makholm 01:59, 23 December 2007 (UTC)