Talk:Ablative case

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What about the Ablative of Agent? Bayerischermann 01:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Finnish examples

The "lähteä kalalta/maidolta" expressions given for the Finnish examples sound somewhat dubious. You might say "lähteä kalasta" (elative, literally "go out of the fish") to mean "quit fishing". "Lähteä kalalta" sounds like you have been standing on the top of a fish and depart. With regard to drinks, ablative is more commonly used for drinks that you drink in a social context, ie. "lähteä kaljalta" (to leave from (drinking) beer, often to leave a bar) or "lähteä kahvilta" (to leave from (drinking) coffee, often to leave a cafe). Its use for drinks in general is in my opinion rare, particularly if the drinker is a person. You might say "lähteä maidolta" if you have been visiting someone's home for the purpose of drinking a glass of milk while socializing, or of a cat that departs from its platter of milk. Vuori 12:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ablative in english?

english has, albeit rather archaic, some ablative too, n'est-ce pas?

                    whence = from where 

also some dative.  :)

                    whither = to where

opinions?

I think that's worthy of discussion in the article. I know it's been a little obnoxious for me not seeing many decent English examples of these grammatical cases in the English bloody articles, which for someone speaking English natively, who would, incidentally, be more likely to read the English translation of this page, would be far more accessible than (cough) Finnish and Turkish. So I'm all for it. Dextrose (talk) 06:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish examples

I'm not a fluent Turkish speaker, but it seems to me that "taşımaktan" ought to be "taşımadan:"

taşımak = infinitive

taşıma = verbal noun

-tan/-dan(/-ten/-den) = ablative case suffix, subject to consonant deformation (and vowel harmony)

Thus "taşımaktan" would be the ablative generated from the infinitive, which is a case I'm not sure even exists. Furthermore, taşımadan requires a little bit more explanation, because the use of the ablative here would be in the context of something like "kuvvetlenmeliyim onu tanışmadan önce," "I have to get stronger before I carry it." Essentially here, "tanışmadan önce" is used to express "from before the carrying of...." Another possible use of tanışmadan would be in the conversation,

"Kollarım acıyorlar." - "My arms hurt."

"Neden?" - "Why?"

"Mobilyayı tanışmadan" - "From carrying furniture."

Tanışmak seems like a poor choice to demonstrate using the ablative case on a verb in any case, but I don't know enough Turkish to be sure of what I'm talking about so I'm not editing the page. Dextrose (talk) 06:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I asked my Turkish friend and she said that taşımaktan would indeed be used this way, as in "elim acıyor bunu taşımaktan" my hand hurts from carrying this. She couldn't exactly explain the usage, but "taşımadan önce" is a valid construction whereas "taşımadan" isn't quite valid as "from carrying." I still say that the example requires more explanation, since it is a somewhat special case of the ablative. Dextrose (talk) 23:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)