User talk:A R King

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[edit] Hi AR!

Hey thanks for the kind words re Georg Cantor! :-)

Now I need to study for prelims, and hope to stay from Wikipedia 'til September-ish, but I'll be back...

...and when I do return, I hope to also return to my work on articles related to Linguistics. I've been away for a while.. I hope to hit the List of Endangered languages pretty hard, adding tons of material until everyone says "Uncle" and lets me split it into several lists, as should have been done a long time ago.. and work on the several Formosan languages... Hawaiian language.. Austronesian languages.. etc.

I really appreciate your help & esprit de corps!

Later Ling.Nut 11:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Great! I may be able to collaborate with you on Hawaiian and Austronesian, as I have some relevant knowledge and materials. Let me know when you're ready to go! Alan --A R King 18:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Congrats!

Egun on, laguna! I just wanted to I was fascinated by your userpage - congratulations from the bottom of my heart! Eskerrik asko Bosniatik! FreshBreeze 08:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Eskerrik asko zuri! (Euskal Herritik) :-) PS I like your Weinreich quotation. --A R King 18:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Euskal Herrian zara? Wow! Nik orian Unibersitatean Euskaraz azterketa du, so please do keep your fingers crossed :) And yes, Weinreich was a sweetheart! FreshBreeze 09:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Euskara ikasten Bosnian??!! I'm the one who should say Wow! Good luck! Alan --A R King 09:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I have just put up a long article on Basque grammar that you may find interesting. But I'm not sure if it's suitable as a Wikipedia article, so I'm considering the possibility of expanding it into a Wikibook instead. Just in case some such drastic decision is made, you might want to be sure to look at it (or download it) while it's still there! (And don't forget the Basque verbs section too.) If I do take the Wikibooks option it will be a long-term job as I will need time to spin it out into a book-length grammar... I'm still wondering what to do: any suggestions or comments welcome! Cheers, Alan --A R King 09:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] some idiot tagged WP:ENLANG for deletion; Angr removed it

HI AR,

...some deletionist who is self-persuaded that he/she is a "wikipedia editor" tagged WP:ENLANG for deletion, then Angr removed the tag... here are two diffs add deletionist tag & then remove tag. Ling.Nut 13:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I'm sorry about that, but glad that it has been corrected. By the way, I noticed that Lenca is mentioned. I would also be happy to collaborate on a Lenca language article. I did a bit of a study on it a couple of years ago, so I should be able to contribute some material. Alan --A R King 18:33, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

(undent) I'll make you a deal: I'll help with Lenca if you'll help with Hawaiian language. Right now I'm studying for prelims, after which I have to write a dissertation proposal, after which I have to pack up and move overseas... Does late September or more likely early October sound good to you? -- Ling.Nut 18:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good! No hurry... --A R King 18:02, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feel free to remove the tag

There are sources, so there is no reason to say the article is unsourced anymore. If I notice a new article without sources, I'll always tag it as unsourced, even if the author says that more is coming soon. There's no reason not too. The tag is easily removed when sources are added. --Onorem♠Dil 16:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. --A R King 16:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] good news

Hi A.R., hope all is well with you! Just dropped by to share some good news -- Ling.Nut 18:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lenca Grammar?

I see from your user page you know something about Lenca as a language. Besides the lyle campbell articles, could you suggest references on Lenca? I know about Walter Lehman's work, and about Adolfo Costenla Umaña's dissertation and his idea that its a chibchan language, heavily modified by nahuat and maya, though I haven't yet got a copy of it. Are there other major sources I should know about? Thanks.

BTW, I'm a historian and anthropologist with some linguistic training, though its rusty, and my work is in Honduras. Rsheptak 02:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like you have about as much information as I do about Lenca. I think everything I have is available somewhere on the Internet, and we have probably covered similar ground. I don't have my Lenca notes handy just now but from memory what you have mentioned just about covers it, I think. I myself have not worked in Honduras, only in El Salvador, but a couple of years ago I and a colleague did a preliminary survey in preparation for what promised to be a (to the extent that present reality permits) Lenca language recovery project (proposed to us by an Indigenous organisation working in the area), but it eventually came to nothing (or so it now seems); once we got past the initial non-commital talking stage and moving towards actually getting to work (which my colleague and I were certainly eager to do), the local partners' interest apparently dried up. In ES this is sometimes referred to (by us at least) as the "llamarada de tusa" phenomenon. So I never actually got my foot in the field there, unfortunately. It sounds like you are better placed though, and it might be interesting to combine our resources if you'd like. How about us working together on a Lenca language article some time in the coming months, for starters? Alan --A R King 16:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Sure, I'll cooperate when you've got time. I still have to read some of these sources (notably the costa rican). Rsheptak 17:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Fine. Have you looked at the ES Lenca material available out there too? It is not clear how closely and in what way ES Lenca was related to the Honduras variety (or varieties, rather), but given the extremely scanty documentation oif Honduran Lenca it would seem useful to refer to it as a closest relative. The big issue, of course, is whether there remain any speakers of Lenca in Honduras. Nobody seems to know! --A R King 10:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I've looked at the ES:Lenca stuff, with the exception of Lehman, which I'll go xerox this week. There are a lot of differences between Salvadoran and Honduran Lenca, and most authors seem to be treating them as two different languages, but they differ on when they separated. Both linguists and anthropologists seem to agree that the language is in fact extinct in Honduras. I spoke with two ethnographers at the Honduran Institute of Anthropology and History who were working in the Lenca region this summer, and none had found anyone who knew more than a few hundred words. Both Honduran and Salvadoran Lenca are undergoing cultural revitalization movements (do a search on "Maya-Lenca" "Najochan" on google to see one fascinating result for El Salvador) so there's definitely activity, and a desire to relearn the language.

BTW, I'll be in print in November arguing that the "Toquegua", who lived along the north coast of Honduras, and neighboring Guatemala, were a house society, just like the Maya; that they were multilingual (chol, yucatec, possibly nahaut) but that they named their places in Lenca, and that these place names were also used as apellidos (family names) among the "indios principales" of the towns in the colonial era. Many of the "dialects" the spanish record in fact appear to be house/family names in the Lenca region as well. I argue the Toquegua are a multilingual named house whose "lengua materna" is probably Lenca, and I suspect we'll find something similar for the other "dialects" the spanish told us about for Honduran Lenca. Rsheptak 03:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the interesting information. Of course you can only "relearn" a language if there is adequate documentation of it, and in the latter respect Lenca is probably a borderline case. I suspect it will take a considerable amount of linguistic reconstruction, scraping the barrel so to speak of the fragments that have been recorded to build up what one can of a coherent linguistic system. It is in that context of a rather extreme salvage operation, "pepenando" (to use a Salvadoran Spanish term borrowed I believe from the Nawat verb pejpena) what bits and pieces we can find, that I suggest the possibility of considering ES Lenca as a backup source. I realise they are different, of course. Cheers, Alan --A R King 07:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Just an update on Lenca "revitalization". The Honduran Minister of Education bought primary school books for instruction in the seven officially recognized indigenous languages, Lenca included. I assume these books came from El Salvador, since I can't imagine where else they might originate. Rsheptak (talk) 00:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds strange. But I have learnt not to expect much (other than backstabbing and trickery) from such ministries: certainly not scientific rigour. These people are NOT to be trusted. Alan --A R King (talk) 07:23, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your work

Hi Alan,

I have seen since long ago your contributions in different projects of Wikimedia, and it's about time to say thanks. Your work, specially around the Basque language, is great. I'm not a linguist, I'm more a scientist (on the way of being an engineer, I hope), but I know that your work is top-notch. Eskerrik asko! - Keta 17:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Eskeriik asko zuri, Keta, for your kind words. Ongi izan! Alan --A R King 13:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] various things 'n stuff

Hi A R,

Whilst adjusting to my new job, I've been puttering around here and there, adding comments to discussion forums, but never dedicating a block of time to Wikipedia. Now I've decided I'm not helping the discussions any; they can carry on without me as well as before. :-) So I'm gonna putter around here and there on articles and on the List of endangered languages. I can't dedicate any significant block of contiguous time, but I will be chipping away at the stone.. let me know if there's anything i can do... --Ling.Nut 00:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

That's fine. I'm also pretty much dormant on Wikipedia at the moment. But Luke in Nawat is coming along like a house on fire! Cheers, --A R King 16:54, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Esaidazu euskaraz!

Egunon! Duela hilabete batzuk zuk hasi zenuen Esaidazu euskaraz! "wikiliburua" ezagutu nuen. Ni euskalduna naiz, ez nuen beraz gehiegi begiratu. Baina aste honetan euskara ikasi nahi duten zenbait lagunekin aurkitu naiz eta ni irakaslea ez naizenez zure "liburua" erabiltzea pentsatu nuen. Ikusi dut proiektua lehengo urtetik geldirik dagoela. Jarraitzeko asmorik baduzu? Mila esker zure lan eta denboragatik! --Unaiaia (talk) 09:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Kaixo! Bai, arrazoia duzu. Hasi nuen baina ez dut jarraitu, sentitzen dut. Beste gauza askorekin enroilatu, eta astirik ez. Agian egunen batean... Unaiaia... Unai + Aia? Aiakoa al haiz? Zarautzen bizi nauk ni... Ondo izan --A R King (talk) 19:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Bueno bueno, beste moduren batean ikasi beharko dute euskara. Behintzat lehenengo atalak erabili ditzakete! Ez ez Unaiaia ez dator Aiatik. Nire izena Unai da baina ezizena lagun batek "Una iaia" (gazteleraz amonatxo edo...) dibertigarria zela uste zuen eta horrekin gelditu nintzen interneten! Mila esker berriro eta zu ere ondo izan --Unaiaia (talk) 11:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Nahuatl getting into position for FA-drive

I have been working intensively on the Nahuatl article for the past few days - I am intent on taking it to FA status within the next few months. In that regard I'd appreciate all and any copyediting, peerreviwing, additions and suggestions to the article from knowledgeable and careful editors such as yourself. Thanks beforehand. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 15:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, my availability is not as high as a year or two ago but I'll do my best to help, when I have time. Please feel welcome to remind me periodically if I don't come through - I may have forgotten (though I'll try not to!). Best wishes, Alan --A R King (talk) 11:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ¡Ay, Carimba! [sic]

Gidday Alan, hope you are travelling well!

When you have some time to spare, I was wondering whether you'd be able to help out with some information on, or sources that discuss, musical instruments featuring in Pipil tradition. This is in relation to a recently created article on the carimba (or caramba), a type of musical bow that is mentioned in a few (possibly dated) ethnohistorical sources as being found among the "nahuatl-speaking peoples" of the Salvadoran Pacific coast in particular, as well as a number of other (non-nahua) central american cultures. Over at the talk:Carimba talkpg we are trying to resolve the extent to which said instrument is or was part of broad nahuan musical traditions, and it occurred to me that you might have a pointer or two on the topic. If you have any insights, would be glad to hear of them at the article's talkpg.

Take care, and saludos. --cjllw ʘ TALK 04:11, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello, nice to hear from you! Unfortunately that isn't my field at all and I can't help much (even bibliographically). All I can think of saying is what is obvious: that 'the "nahuatl-speaking peoples" of the Salvadoran Pacific coast in particular' certainly has to be pointing towards the pipiles. My impression is that musical culture has not been preserved very well in this area in general, except perhaps for the traditions of playing pipes and drums in local "fiestas" (mostly post-European in form and content, I would guess). We have a recent recording and transcription of an interview of an old man who makes the latter instruments, talking about their construction, how he learnt to make them and so on. No mention of anything like what you mention, as far as I can remember. I also met a marimba-maker in the Pipil area, but my guess is that is a more recent importation from Guatemala, where I understand marimbas are more common. But I insist that I'm not into that field so don't take my word for any of this. Cheers, Alan. PS Sorry to be slow answering, I'm under an avalanche of work at the moment. --A R King (talk) 11:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Alan, no worries - as you can judge by my tardiness in getting back to you I'm a bit preoccupied myself. Appreciate your info and responses, in any case. Cheers.
ps. If you don't mind, with your permission I may copy your above response to the article's talkpg, just so as to have some continuity for any further investigative discussions that may occur there. --cjllw ʘ TALK 07:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Sure, no problem. Yeah, I'm sorry but I ended not having time to do much for the article, unfortunately. Snowed under with work and deadlines and things. But I'm sure you'll do fine without me! And good luck, anyway. Cheers, --A R King (talk) 14:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Miskito

Hello! As you are the main writer on articles regarding Miskito language, was wondering if you'd considered providing a summary of the information in Miskito grammar and the typological article in the main language article. I was just a bit surprised that there was so much information on the language, and yet the main article itself contains less than two lines. — Zerida ☥ 19:02, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Zerida. The reason, of course, is that I didn't have anything to do with editing the language article. I think your suggestion is a very good one. The trouble will be finding time. But I'll keep your idea in mind and try to follow it up. If by any chance I fail to do so (say in the next month or so), you might like to try doing it yourself. In addition to my Miskito grammar article there is also the beginnings of a Miskito language course that I started at Wikibooks. The introduction to the course contains some information that could be synthesized, perhaps. Regards, Alan --A R King (talk) 15:23, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaiʻi WikiProject Newsletter - Issue I - April 2008

Aloha. The April 2008 issue of the Hawaiʻi WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaiʻi —Viriditas | Talk 22:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback requested in an RfC

Dear A R King, You don't know me, but I noticed your work in some FAs on languages and linguistics and wondered if you might like to weigh in on an RfC that I initiated earlier this week. I fear that the discussion there has degenerated. I'm aware that you might not know anything specific about the language concerned (which I don't either), but the content issue is more general. I've tried to explain this more precisely in my statement (at the expense of using too many words which I hope you don't find too off-putting). Needless to say, if you do decide to say something, I don't expect you to say anything in support of my position, only to provide you best opinion. Request for comment: When does the literary tradition in a language begin? Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. As you suspected, I know nothing substantial about the language in question or its history. I have just spent a short while (perhaps half an hour) scanning through the RfC discussion. That is enough for me to conclude that I have nothing to say that is worth saying on the matter given my complete ignorance of the issues and the presence, in the debate, of others whose opinions and competence I respect. For those reasons (and the fact that I am also very busy, but I don't want that to sound like a cliché'd excuse), I would like to politely decline to enter the fray. Sorry! Alan --A R King (talk) 10:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
No problem at all. Thanks for taking the time to both read the RfC (apologies for its longwindedness) and explain yourself so considerately here! Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaiʻi WikiProject Newsletter - Issue II - May 2008

Aloha. The May 2008 issue of the Hawaiʻi WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaiʻi 17:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaiʻi WikiProject Newsletter - Issue III - June 2008

Aloha. The June 2008 issue of the Hawaiʻi WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaiʻi 04:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)