Talk:A-flat minor

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[edit] Pop songs

Isn't the listing of non-notated pop songs on this page problematic, seeing as how in all but the most extreme cases (Scriabinian madness or chains of modulations with accidentals preserved), equal-tempered pieces based on this pitch in minor are considered G#m instead? I will delate/move the songs soon if nobody can produce a score for them that explicitly shows them to be in A-flat minor. Amber388 18:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The Janacek explicitly uses 7 flats and concludes on A-flat minor chords, seems sufficient to me, but more to the point, that it is described- when given a key at all, as "in A flat minor" is basically sufficient (as with Chopin's Bolero "in C", Mahler's 7th "in E minor", and other works whose keys are more a matter, perhaps, of habitual description than actual agreement with the rules of key and mode association.) Similarly with Dimitrie Cuclin's symphony no. 11 in A flat minor- haven't seen the score, don't know if it uses 7 flats (the finale is in A flat major, just as Myaskovsky's 17th symphony in G-sharp minor uses an Aflat major finale) but the composer's own description of the 11th (Cuclin) is A flat minor, or at least that's what's on the score... Schissel | Sound the Note! 05:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Very good. No argument from me on any of these. I was merely asserting that the pop songs that had previously been listed on this page were incorrectly identified. Carry on. Amber388 16:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
First, I don't think use of this key necessarily represents "Scriabinian" madness. (Scriabin in fact never wrote any passage in a seven-flat key signature.) And use of a seven-flat key could actually be superior to the corresponding five-sharp one if the harmonies or modulations involved chromatic notes that were more often raised than lowered, so it is not necessarily madness (of any kind) to use such a key. (There is a passage in The Poem of Ecstasy in A-flat minor (with no key signature in use, all notated with accidentals); but it is quite chromatic, and if the passage were recast into G-sharp minor there would have been thickets of double-sharps at times.)
Do we know for sure that all the pop songs were never notated? Many pop songs are published in some form, and wouldn't session musicians at least, if not the primary pop group, be performing from notated parts? It would be good if someone who has access to any printed material for these songs could confirm whether they are notated in G-sharp minor or A-flat minor - rather preferable, if possible, to just a wholesale deletion of the entire list.
It is vaguely possible that a few pop songs may be in such extreme flat keys. Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys begins in the key of E-flat minor, and its refrain moves through various Mixolydian modes, including G-flat, A-flat, and B-flat. Later, the music goes through less extreme flat keys such as B-flat major and F major. This is a clear case where the notation for a pop song (if it wasn't transposed to the simpler key of E minor) would be best placed in the flat enharmonic notation rather than the sharp. Otherwise the music would modulate to keys as distant as E-sharp major, and actually involve B#7 chords (i.e., C7). M.J.E. (talk) 07:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image links

30-May-2007: In 2006/2007, Wikipedia images required both attributes "thumb|250px" to show a caption, as in:

[[Image:MyPhoto.jpg|thumb|250px|right| My picture.]]

By itself, size "250px" ignores the caption "My picture" (confusing many people), which is considered bad form in computer languages (should warn & be corrected rather than ignore). Just remember to include "thumb" (or "frame") for a caption in an image-link.

Image hints in 2007:

  • Limit most images to "thumb|300px" to avoid crowded text-wrapping.
  • A small image followed directly by a big image often chops text.
  • To resize larger than the original ("oversizing"), omit "thumb" (oversized images cannot have captions in 2007, yet).
  • Beware "left|thumb" (for "right|"), because left-side images appear immediately to left of the text.
  • Most images (99.99%) should be quick JPEG for rapid display.
  • Avoid resizing PNG images (2007): might become 10x larger resized.

Overall, omitting "thumb" is the most common problem.

There are many formatting issues in the Wiki software (used worldwide), with a long list of problems to fix, but in the software world, errors often persist, only to be upstaged by a totally radical new software version, rather than just fixing the irritating problems fast. Note that numerous software systems (not just Wiki) have frustrating issues for years. -Wikid77 16:41, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other issues

[ Discuss other unnamed issues here. -Wikid77 ]


[edit] Well-known music in this key

I plan on deleting any unsourced entries from this in a few weeks. (Listening to a piece and trying to figure out the key is not a source, and is also WP:OR.) Torc2 (talk) 08:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)