User talk:90.206.36.142

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[edit] Kremlin (bar)

I've moved your deletion review request over to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 May 15#Kremlin (bar), please join in the discussion. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 05:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Right - you just moved what I put on the notice board over to Deletion Review? What was the point in that? As someone said, there were no reasons given. Are you a member of the LGBT Project? --Setanta747 (talk) 06:28, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I think you misunderstood what happened. This post was not made to a noticeboard, but an obscure bot-updated deletion sorting board where no one noticed it. Since you stated "Please feel free to tidy this up and submit a proper review on my behalf", I made the assumption that the post was a request for deletion review and forwarded it to the appropriate forum. In answer to your question: no, I'm not a member of the LGBT project, nor do I hold any particular interest in gender identity studies. My concern with this article had to do with notability, as I do not see any significance in a self-proclaimed first regional gay bar. Surely gay people in Northern Ireland congregated in other establishments prior to the Kremlin, and the tradition of gay bars far predates its existence. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 23:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Right - my quick investigation as to where I should put the request led me to the page (the bot-updated deletion sorting board you describe). When I was suggesting that somebody tidy up and submit a proper review, I had hoped that someone with some knowledge on the subject might be able to help shed light on it.. as opposed to just copying and pasting my note, verbatim, to a page which would actually be used to decide the future of the article.
I've subsequently (recently) found a more appropriate place to help improve the article. It would of course help if the original text I had submitted was known - as a starting point for other editors. I had originally left it as a stub in the hope that someone more knowledgeable could flesh it out. I can assure you that the bar is reasonably notable in terms of its position in the LGBT social scene. You asked if gay people congregated in other bars, and I'm certainly aware that some pubs had 'gay nights' on particular nights of the week.. but that doesn't make them specifically gay bars. The tradition of gay bars may well pre-date the existence of the Kremlin, but that doesn't negate the possibility that it was the first openly gay bar in Northern Ireland.
Having said all that, I have since discovered a webpage on the Internet which might suggest that it wasn't the first gay bar in Northern Ireland, but merely one of the two most popular at a time when it was one of only two venues. Again, all this information might in time be cleared up by someone who knows more about the scene etc.
You seem to have a deletionist attitude and, I have to say, I have probably developed an attitude opposite to that: Wikipedia guidelines are often contradictory, as you're probably aware. For example, while on the one hand policy guidelines on notability suggest that certain criteria should be met before inclusion of any particular subject as an article, policy guideline elsewhere suggest that we shouldn't worry about space. While, on a worldwide scale, the Kremlin in Belfast might not be particularly notable, I would strongly suggest that the bar is quite notable in terms of the local population of Northern Ireland and specifically of Belfast, and particularly to the gay (or LGBT) community therein.
From a technical standpoint, you're probably right. From a more local perspective though, I would suggest that there is more than meets the eye.
I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for any inappropriate tone I may have taken with you, or that may have been perceived - I have been having a rough time as a Wikipedian of late. Also, I appreciate that you may have had good intentions with regard to moving my note to a more relevant location. Having said that, as it stood, my note was quite likely to fail the process, as I'm sure you'd agree.
A member of the LGBT suggested I should re-create the article in a sandbox and perhaps it could be worked on there, before being re-created in main space. I wonder if I could ask you to re-create the article (with it's editing history..?) as was before its deletion, in a sub-page in my user space. User:Setanta747/Kremlin .. if and when you get the chance.
Cheers, --Setanta747 (talk) 00:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)