Talk:7.92x33mm Kurz

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[edit] 7.92x33mm Kurz not is a rifle cartridge, Short or long

7.92x33mm Kurz is a rifle cartridge ? This is a humorous story. Deutsch'name of this cartridge is Pistolenpatrone 43, which means pistol cartridge. Pistol is short gun, rifle is long gun. 7.92x33mm Kurz is a rifle cartridge, so, pistol is rifle ?? else short is long ??? Huyphuc1981 nb (talk) 11:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The MP43 is a Rifle, therefore the cartridge it fires is a rifle cartridge. You're falling into the same trap that they set for Hitler. MP is translated machinepistol. That was a 'disguise' for the true nature of the weapon to allow it to be produced despite the desire NOT to produce rifles. It's a rifle cartridge. You are wrong. Sorry. --Nukes4Tots (talk) 12:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

hi hi he he he hi hi he. a ha, Pistolenpatrone 43 was a 'disguise'. so, what rifle was used this cartridge. Huyphuc1981 nb (talk) 05:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The StG 44. Not the only rifle it was chambered in, but the best example. Your English is poor and you are arguing semantics? --'''I am Asamuel''' (talk) 09:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

hi hi he he hi hi he he Deutsch called their gun is MP44 (m... pistol 1944), a pistol. "your point" called Deutsch gun MP44 is rifle, Deutsch pistol are your rifle. Deutsch called their cartridge is Pistolenpatrone-43 (pistol_cartridge-43), "your point" called Deutsch cartridge " Pistolenpatrone 43" is rifle's cartridge. G=Gewehr=infantry, G98= gun of infantry type 1898, STG= Storm infantry. "your point" called Deutsch G is rifle. "your point" called Deutsch STG is assault rifle. Pistol are rifle . hi hi he he hi hi he he . STG44 was a rifle, as result, hi he hi hi, its cartridge was rifle's cartridge. Pistol change into rifle. Huyphuc1981 nb (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't care to dignify this with a response, but there were no service pistols chambered in 8mm Kurz. The reasons for the designations MP for the Sturmgewehr 44 and Pistolenpatrone for 8mm kurz have already been explained and are well-documented outside of Wikipedia; the fact that you choose not to even try to comprehend that is unfortunate. Government or military nomenclature does not always describe the object it names, and to believe that it must is the height of naïveté.

If you continue to inject poorly-worded text into main articles (nonsense sentences like "PPSh-41 are machine pistol second like rifle in wartime") and copyrighted material from other websites as you did on the PPSh-41 and PPD-40 pages, it will be reverted. I have tried to assume good faith with you, but entries like "hi hi hi he ha ha ho ho Deutsch gun pistol not rifle ha ha hi hi" stuff, you must admit that you're being rather disruptive. Twalls (talk) 21:01, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Government or military nomenclature does not always describe the object it names ??? your knowledge very few and some mistake. Gewehr http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr : maybe machlock muskton, STG= storm machlock muskton (!!!!!). Rifle in Deutsch is Büchsen, STG not is Storm Büchsen. STG maybe storm machlock muskton ( I cannot help laughing, may i laugh ). Pistolenpatrone 43 ?? Pistol cartridge model 1943, It is military' name, standard.

You know ?? 枪 in Chinese, like Gewehr in Deutsch. 枪 is a staff, 枪 is a spear, 枪 is a gun, AK-47 is 56式冲锋枪 . 枪 is a weapon, that used by infantry, have "main weapon" role. 冲锋=assault. (may i laugh, please ) 冲锋枪==assault stick. if STG=assault rifle then may be AK-47==assault spear.

Huyphuc1981 nb (talk) 08:09, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you're going to use Chinese to make your case, whatever that case may be, you're shooting yourself in the proverbial foot. The Mandarin term for the Stg44 is 44突击步枪 (突擊步槍 or tu ji bu qiang) - AK47 can also be tu ji bu qiang. This word most definitely means "assault rifle." The term for machine pistol is 全自动手枪 (全自動手槍 or quan zi dong shou qiang), which is not used to describe Stg44. Everyone knows 手 (shou) means 'hand' as in handgun. And that is not Stg44. And 7.92x33mm is not a 手枪子弹 (手槍子彈 or shou qiang zi dan) handgun bullet. Ha he hi ho hu! Twalls (talk) 23:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

This is a fools errand, but I have to point out that I did not know that 手 (shou) means 'hand'. --'''I am Asamuel''' (talk) 02:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I thought the Argumentum ad populum ("everybody knows that...") might have some traction here, since nothing else seemed to fly. It is true though - the symbol 手 shows, in stylized form, the five fingers of a hand. Twalls (talk) 03:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] to Twalls

fools. your knowledge very poor and many mistake. U change WbW by ditionary ??? very poor.

突擊=surprise attack. 步槍=infantry gun. AK47 can also be "tu ji bu qiang" ???this is a mistake.

AK-47 is 56式冲锋枪, 56式=type 56, 冲锋=assault, 枪=above. http://www.gun-world.net/china/rifle/1956ar/1956.htm

"tu ji bu qiang" is Type 81, 81式突擊步槍, 突擊 as 冲锋, in the same , change name to promote, only for. http://www.armsky.com/yuanchuangzhuangao/seechina/ChinaArmy/200608/5491.html

In addition, storm weapon (STG), is 突擊=surprise attack, too.

In modern chinese, term for machine pistol and assault rifle...in the same, are 冲锋枪, a personal machine gun, that can fire in move. 冲锋枪=assault weapon, above, u see. 冲锋枪 maybe not a rifle, maybe a spear. 1000式冲锋枪 is a spear, a u understand. 1956式冲锋枪 is AK, a u understand. 1950式冲锋枪 is a MP, a u understand.

PPSh-41 is 50式冲锋枪, http://baike.baidu.com/view/327929.html

AK-47 is 56式冲锋枪, http://www.gun-world.net/china/rifle/1956ar/1956.htm [1]

M3 Grease is 37式冲锋枪 (37=民国三七年=1948, 三七=37) http://baike.baidu.com/view/1322099.html .

全自动枪 not a used as a type of gun, that as a type of machine. 全=all, 自动=automatic, 枪=gun. Fully automatic gun (or Fully automatic spear), is a usual term. 手=hand, 全自动手枪, this term is cross bred term, is a stupid mistake, stupid creation. follow.

term for "fully automatic personal gun" in chinese is 全自动步枪. 步 is leg, 手 is hand. A u understand. MP40 is a 全自动步枪, M3 Grease is 37式冲锋枪. 37式冲锋枪 is a 全自动步枪. A u understand.

手枪 not is a pistol, that is a small gun, hand gun, as C96 (96式手枪), as Tokarev TT-33 (54式手枪). MP=machinepistol=PP russian =PPSh-41 = 50式冲锋枪 ≠ 手枪. your big mistake, word by word change used ditionary. C96 is 手枪, and C96 is pistol. MP40 not is 手枪, and MP40 is pistol. a u understand

96式手枪 (C-96) http://baike.baidu.com/view/667520.htm

54式手枪 (TT-33) http://www.junshijia.com/ziliao/2005-12/20051230190543.htm http://www.warchina.com/n16541c40.aspx

64式手枪 http://www.warchina.com/n16543c40.aspx

77式手枪 http://www.warchina.com/n16545c40.aspx

84式手枪 http://www.warchina.com/n16547c40.aspx

92式手枪 http://www.warchina.com/n16548c40.aspx

59式手枪 http://www.junshijia.com/ziliao/2005-12/20051230190814.htm

37式手枪 http://junmeng.nen.com.cn/blog/html/45/51345-13374.html

In English, hand gun ≠ pistol. MP40 is pistol, and MP40 not is hand gun. a u understand.

Nazi die, Nazi was destitute hand gun (手枪), so .

Ha he hi ho hu, u pool. talk to very pool as u, tired.

Huyphuc1981 nb (talk) 07:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Huyphuc1981 nb (talk • contribs) 06:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Huyphuc1981 nb (talk • contribs) 07:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the many links, but remember that this page is supposed to be for the improvement of the 7.92x33mm article. I stand by what I wrote as far as the terms for assault rifle and machine pistol. Sure, 56式冲锋枪 is the official term for the Type 56 (Chinese AK); that is the Chinese production model of the AK. It doesn't contradict what I write at all. Any AK pattern weapon may be considered an assault rifle in Chinese, English or otherwise. The StG44, AK and M16 define the genre with their light weight, full-auto capability and intermediate calibers. The Sturmgewehr concept came to define this whole class of weapons. Even though its official designation was at one time MP43 and MP44, it is not thought of or described in German as a "Maschinenpistole". It is a rifle, not a submachine gun or machine pistol. The 8mm Kurz cartridge is an intermediate rifle cartridge. It is not a pistol or handgun round.

I guess you never got the memo that in English, we say "submachine gun" for the somewhat inexact European term "machine pistol". I have told you that official terms are not always precise and that similar cognates and loanwords in two languages can have subtle shifts in meaning, yet you can still arrive at a definite meaning by analyzing actual usage. Take a step back and think about language and how it is used. These facts have been demonstrated to you by me and other editors and it is in the firearms literature, if you spend the time to discover this. Twalls (talk) 14:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

your points, againt. In one your point, Gewehr is a rifle. In another your point, 枪 is a gun. Inveterate prejudice. Addition, your point has big mistake about Assault rifle

define the genre with their light weight, full-auto capability and intermediate calibers i am sorry. four are three basic properties in a Assault rifle. Assault rifle is a rifle, first. Next, capability to fire automatic mode in move. Addition, select-fire properties, semi-auto and fully-auto mode. Assault rifle fire together LMG, other rifle... in squad, in the same round, but Assault rifle is small than LMG and muzzle velocity (range) slow than battle rifle. if the gun, what fire a round, that small than norman round, then the gun is the pistol. AK, RPK (LMG), SKS (battle rifle) used cartridges in the same, M-43.

56式冲锋枪 is the official term for the Type 56 (Chinese AK); that is the Chinese production model of the AK.. oh, Russian AK-47 was AK-47 冲锋枪. In my example, 56式 is the official term, 56式=type 56, and 冲锋枪 is term for type. 冲锋枪=assault weapon. Like this, STG= storm gun of infantry (Gewehr not truly is the rifle, truly, gewehr is the "main gun of infantry", maybe muskton ), 突擊=surprise attack, similar.

In Chinese similar in Deutsch. 步枪 is the "main weapon of infantry", maybe a spear. in 1000, 冲锋枪 was spear. In 1948 is M3A1式冲锋枪, a MP type, Chinese version name is 37式冲锋枪. In 1950, at Mao's Chinese, 冲锋枪 is PPSh-41, "波波沙式7.62MM冲锋枪" (pa pa sha 7,62mm assault gun), name of Chinese version is 50式冲锋枪, PPSh-41 is the MP, you know. 1956 year, 冲锋枪 is AK, assault rifle. Like this, 冲锋枪 are not rifle.

冲锋枪 is not the rifle, this is not the assault rifle, this is the "assault weapon". STG is not the assault rifle, this is storm (surprise attack) gun. Maybe, 冲锋枪 is the MP (or spear) and STG is the MP (or muskton).

adition, "intermediate calibers" was your infer from "fire in fully auto mode on move". define the genre with their light weight, full-auto capability and intermediate calibers ??? RPK is the assault rifle ??? M3A1式冲锋枪 is the assault rifle ???

and event, oh, event, event, event. Huyphuc1981 nb (talk)

[edit] to Twalls

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Talk:7.92x33mm_Kurz&diff=216894147&oldid=216892651

The Sturmgewehr concept came to define this whole class of weapons. Even though its official designation was at one time MP43 and MP44, it is not thought of or described in German as a "Maschinenpistole". It is a rifle, not a submachine gun or machine pistol. The 8mm Kurz cartridge is an intermediate rifle cartridge. It is not a pistol or handgun round.

your inveterate prejudice. MachinePisstol 44 is the rifle because MP44 is the rifle. Pistolenpatrone 43 is a rifle cartridge because MP44 is the rifle. What LMG and long range rifle was used Pistolenpatrone 43, ??? as RPK (LMG), as RPD (LMG), as SKS (long range rifle), as Winchester Model 70 (long range rifle), as SA80(long range rifle), as FN Minimi (LMG). Root of your point is gewehr is the rifle, while gewehr is a musket, maybe.

MP44 has sufficient specific characteristics of one machine pistol, front hand point in receiver, at beginning of barrel (to fire in short range). In the rifle, front hand point in hand-guard, move forward, at mid barrel (to fire in long range). MP44's muzzle velocity higher than other MP at this time, but, muzzle energy 1450 J, too small, can not compare with rifle (AK, SKS ~ 2050-2150, M16 ~ 1750). While this, MP44 too heavy, to take full advantage of cartridge's energy, can not more increase. So, can not make a LMG, what longer than barrel lengh and higher than muzzle energy. So, in squad, LMG and long range rifle are used other cartridge type, that stronger than MP44 cartridge. So, Pistolenpatrone 43 is smaller than other cartridges in squad. So, Pistolenpatrone 43 is the pistol cartridge.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Talk:StG44&action=edit&section=25

Deutsch caled their gun is "pistol". You are try hard to prove this, Deutsch machine pistol MP44 is the rifle.

Huyphuc1981 nb (talk) 04:29, 4 June 2008 (UTC)