User talk:72.144.158.243

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[edit] Category removal

Hello, thanks for your interest in Wikipedia! However, removing valid categories without having replacement categories (for example splitting Jewish composers and songwriters into two distinct categories) is not a good idea, especially when you are removing the cats for composers who were both composer and songwriter (there are more than a few). Badagnani 09:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello. This message is regarding your repeated removal of accurate categories from dozens of pages regarding Jewish composers and songwriters. Before making potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the articles' talk page. Otherwise, people might consider your edits to be vandalism. Thank you. Badagnani 09:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do not delete valid categories without replacing them with categories you prefer at the same time. Some Jewish composers are also songwriters, and the two overlap quite a bit, hence the original logic behind the category. Was this category change discussed already, by the way? You should make a proposal at Jewish music and we'll take it from there. For now, I am replacing the valid categories. Badagnani 09:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Big changes like this, particularly the way you are doing it (deleting categories without replacing with a more specific category) must be done by consensus. I myself, as a longtime contributor to many of these articles, am happy with the category. You seem to misunderstand that composers must be both composer and songwriter to be placed in the category but if the category were "animals and plants" it would include both. Please "discuss" first; this is how we do things here, particularly for sweeping changes such as that which you seem to be trying to impose unilaterally. Thanks. Badagnani 10:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I would be happy to make the category for you, but I am not convinced of the beneficial nature of having two separate categories for "songwriters" and "composers," seeing how, due to Jewish composers' historical involvement and skill at both classical and popular composition, so many, such as Bernstein, Weill, Gerhswin, Eisler, Romberg, et al., have done both. It needs discussion first. Badagnani 10:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

A "musician" and a "composer" are different and robbing Wikipedia users of a resource (the Jewish composers/songwriters category) telling them which composers were Jewish is not correct, in my view. "Jewish musicians" includes all sorts of non-composers who play various instruments and is clearly not the same. Categories do not all have to be mutually exclusive here. Please take a Wikibreak and discuss first. Badagnani 10:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

You just wrote: I know that but the category has both - why make it harder?; what does this mean? The category "Jewish composers and songwriters" that appears inside "Jewish classical musicians" is the very same category you are trying to depopulate. Badagnani 10:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Community concensus is currently against you. Please stop making these changes until you have signed up for wikipedia and fully understand the category system. Any more changes could be considered vandalism, as they go against community concensus. HawkerTyphoon 10:46, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
This is your last warning. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. --Nlu (talk) 10:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for vandalizing Wikipedia. If you wish to make useful contributions, you are welcome to come back after the block expires. --Nlu (talk) 10:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I will not suggest a name for an account which currently provides nothing to Wikipedia. Make an account, create a category, talk with everyone about it, then, if it's agreed, make the change. What you are doing serves only to annoy the hell out of people who will keep reverting your edits. Once again, 'if you keep making these edits, you will be blocked from wikipedia. HawkerTyphoon 10:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe all Jewish composers and songwriters are already in the "Jewish classical musicians" category, as you imply, as the "Jewish composers and songwriters" includes some songwriters who are not involved with classical music, as well as composers who are not "musicians" per se (that is, not a singer or instrumentalist). "Jewish classical musicians" should include Jewish vocalists and instrumentalists and composers who are also vocalists or instrumentalists. Not all composers are also performers, though many are. The categories are not always mutually exclusive; they serve to help users find the information they need. For example: all notable Jewish composers/songwriters or all notable Jewish classical musicians. The categories may include some of the same people, which is fine, because they are used in different ways by people looking to find different data sets. Badagnani 10:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)