User talk:71.117.255.149

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Please give me a link to where Mark R states that there are 3 different MinWins.

By the way, what exactly does "avoiding this in the offline talk" mean? - Josh (talk | contribs) 19:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Below is everything Mark said about MinWin in the Channel 9 video I saw:

"...Eric Traut gave a talk at University of Ohio about something called MinWin and there's a lot of confusion about what MinWin is and how it relates to Server Core. [Yeah, I thought they were related. - The other guy] Yeah, a lot of people do and actually it's kind of unfortunate that the name MinWin was used at some point early in the development of Server Core internally and in some public presentations like at WinHEC. So, a lot of people when they heard MinWin again thought 'Oh, that's the MinWin that was the basis for Server Foundation or Server Core' and actually the MinWin that we're talking about today is something pretty different and the MinWin that we're talking about today is really what Rich Nason/Rich Plexer done with the help of a bunch of other people, analyze the dependencies and carve out the lowest smallest core component of Windows that would be a standalone testable slice of Windows and that is really analyzing the dependencies and cutting the lines, the cycles from MinWin to higher-level components, really making sure that MinWin doesn't depend on anything else, that it's totally self-contained. So, it can be built seperatly from the rest of the Windows source tree and can run independantly of the Windows source tree as Eric showed in his VM demo. [So, let me ask you this. Let me stop you right there and ask you this one question. My understanding is what you're saying is that the kernel can't run independant of the shell. What does the kernel depend on thats running in the shell, today? Why couldn't I take... - The other guy] So, when I say the kernel, people...The word kernel is used loosely. It means a whole bunch of different things. When I say kernel...MinWin being a kernel what I'm saying is that the kernel is NTOS kernel. It's the stuff, the core of Windows that runs in kernel mode. It's got a lot of support components around it that also run in kernel mode and then there's layers of system-level components that run in user mode but are still part of the core OS and so depending...Some people call kernel that whole core OS. You know some people call kernel just the part that's an NTOS kernel and some people call the kernel even a small component inside of NTOS and consider that the kernel. In fact, internally in the source tree, there's a small piece called the kernel insode of NTOSKRNL so there's a lot of confusion about the word kernel. So if I've used the word kernel around MinWin I'm really talking about core of the system and that includes some system-level stuff that doesn't...In fact, there's no window manager inside of or windowing subsystem inside of MinWin. So all the dependencies on that stuff are cut off and so it doesn't depend on having User, GDI, WIN32K.SYS, the Win32 graphics subsystem driver in it and you asked about can we make...why would that stuff depend on the shell. Well, you bring some stuff on top of that and it ends up bringing this piece which ends up bring this piece which ends up bringing you know, shlwapi32.dll and shdocvw, two of the core shell DLLs and you've basically got the shell then and that brings a whole bunch of other things. I mean it really is a 'You pull in one thing and you've pulled in the whole world.' really from a dependency point of view so that's really what the core, uh, Server Core really is. You pull in one thing and you've really pulled in the whole thing. What they've just done is snip lines, you know, snip those lines with a scissor basically where you still bring it in but because none of...nothing you're doing will ever exercise those lines out. It's okay."

Please point out where he indicates a difference between Windows 7 MinWin and the MinWin that Eric Traut demoed. - Josh (talk | contribs) 22:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] January 2008

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