User talk:68.47.102.75

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[edit] NPOV

It would be better if you avoid using phrases such like "murdered in cold blood" or "savagely murdered" in the article 2007 South Korean hostage crisis in Afghanistan. Your feelings are understandable, and your contribution to the article as a whole is appreciated, but Wikipedia upholds the policy of Neutral Point of View strictly. Technically, the term "murdered" is also incorrect as it depicts a premeditated killing, or an intentional homicide of another human being, usually for personal reasons, with the offender most likely not wanting to be known or found. However, in the case of terrorists, the intention is usually to draw as much attention as possible, for purposes of propaganda or ransom, and not for personal reasons - in Mafia terms, "business." This therefore could not be called "murder" - "killed" would be a simpler and better term, while "executed" could be used to describe a hostage being killed. Moreover, it would be better if you could provide a rationale for removing some of the citations in the article. Aran|heru|nar 12:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

On the matter of mirrors, I do have quite a few in my home and I can assure you I find no deficiency in my appearance. Your suggestion is appreciated, however.
Let's resume the discussion to a technical basis, and with goodwill I inform you my patience would not allow me to give you a second chance. It is my sincere wishes that our discussion would be within the borders of logic, for this is the keystone to the policies of Wikipedia. If you feel that your feelings may hinder your abilities to contribute or discuss logically, however, feel free to leave Wikipedia (again, this is a goodwill suggestion. At times, I feel the same for myself.)
"Taking the life of other human beings against their will", strictly, is homicide, while murder is a form of homicide. By law, murder consists of "elements of malice and the lack of justification", both of which are an incorrect description for the kidnapping and the subsequent killing of the two hostages. Please do not get me wrong, I am not to say that the killings are in any way rationally "justified." However, the terrorists have "justified" their killings based on the failure of the South Korean government to comply with their demands, and this is by law a "justification". On the other hand, elements of malice are lacking in the crimes committed - the kidnappings and subsequent killings are based on politics, not because of personal malice, as obviously the terrorists and their victims do not know each other. For example, if a person hates another person and kills him in a pre-planned way because of the hatred, this could be called a murder. However, the terrorists do not know the South Koreans at all, so the two killings could not be called "murders." Rather, the motives behind the killings are propaganda and to strive for a deal with the South Korean government, which, by law, is defined as "lynching." In this case, an execution is carried out.
On a side note I could assure you this is no attempt to "hide the truth". It simply depends on the readers' viewpoint. For many, an "execution" may be an even more loathful act than a "murder." The reason I started a reasonable discussion with you is to strive to find a more accurate term for the act committed. If you disagree on the terms, feel free to say your part. And thank you. Aran|heru|nar 14:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
And please do not blank your talk page. Simply for convenience and politeness. Aran|heru|nar 14:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Let's start putting all the discussion related on the talk page of the article, for convenience. Aran|heru|nar 08:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits

Hi, there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button Image:Wikisigbutton.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot 14:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

As Aranherunar has already pointed out, murder has very specific connotations that fail to meet WP:NPOV. In addition, you would likely find many people in Afghanistan who would willingly argue with you about the 'innocence' of the kidnapped South Koreans. We should strive therefore to avoid terms such as 'murdered' whenever possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Extrema (talk • contribs) 20:04, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

A quote from you: "...murder is NEVER justified...when people are using animalistic, savage cultural beliefs to commit crimes, this is wrong..." Prove it. If you can do so, the combined philosophers of the world would certainly like to hear about it, because there is no factual basis for saying so. I personally think murder is abhorrent in every form, including the deaths of the missionaries in Afghanistan, but unlike you I recognize that there is no factual basis whatsoever for supporting this belief as absolute. We may (generally) agree that this was murder in the United States, but in Afghanistan, tribal law may state otherwise. Would you like to argue that the U.S. Code of Law is somehow superior than Afghan tribal law on a factual basis? (Hint: you can't) Extrema 22:34, 14 September 2007 (UTC)