User talk:217.132.141.58

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[edit] Your recent edits

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[edit] Blocked

You have been warned repeatedly about adding links to your own website, and you have chosen to ignore those warnings, so you are now blocked for 24 hours. I have reverted your edits, including the one that claims that no other air crash at sea has not had bodies recovered. You have cobbled together unreliable refs to support your Original Research, which is against our rules, and is clearly untrue. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 14:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Akradecki, I think that you have over-reacted by removing "The Human Remains" from the article. This section does not! link to my website, and I think that "Izvestia" (no one has suggested that these diver interviews are unreliable let alone given reasons for that) and "KAL 007: The Coverup by David Pearson, Summit Books" are not unreliable refs. Further - Has there been another passenger plane crash at sea in which there have been no bodies, no body parts, and no body tissues recovered at the determined crash site, as in the case of KAL 007? That is what this section claims, nothing more - "The lack of human remains, included body parts and tissues, as well as bodies themslelves". The finds from Wakkanai that I have listed are in from ICAO as well as Pearson's book. Bert


"The Human Remains Unlike any other passenger plane disaster at sea, there were no human remains on the surface of the sea at the determinded crash site - in international waters north of Moneron Island. The lack of human remains, included body parts and tissues, as well as bodies themslelves. This led commentators to expect bodies to be entombed in the wreckage of KAL 007 at the bottom of the sea. Soviet civilian divers, who gave their account to Izvestia magazine in 1991, dispelled this expectation by their amazement at the dearth of bodies (and luggage) in and around the wreckage they had visited beginning just 7 days (on Sept. 7.)after the shootdown. Diver Viyacheslav Popov reports. "I will confess we felt great relief when we found there were no bodies at the bottom. Not only no bodies, no suitcases also or large bags." (Izvestia, May, 27, 1991, Pg. 6). Captain Mikhail Igorovich Girs reports that in all the dives, out of the 269 passengers and crew there were only about 10 encounters with human remains, perhaps from the same individual. Aside from tissues and flesh, these included a hand in a glove and a partial torso. Diver Vadim Kondrabaev, accounts for the lack of bodies as due to there being no passengers aboard KAL 007 to start with, or because they were removed prior to the work of the civilian divers (on September 7) by "special services" (Soviet militiary divers, according to the Izvestia series) [1]. The lack of bodies has also been explained as due to the feeding action of the cuttlefish and the large crabs in the area of Moneron, but commentators point out that these sea creatures would not have eaten the bones - nor would they hgave consumed luggage.

"Eight days after the shootdown, more human remains washed up on the northen Wakkanai shores of Hokkaida, Japan, across the Soya strait from Sakhalin Island. These remains included 11 small body parts (including the back) and body tissues, as well as a partial torso of a child with "glass" imbedded in the chest, and the torso of a Caucasian woman- as suggested by a strand of auburn hair imbedded in the partial skull. (KAL 007: The Cover-up, David E. Pearson, Summit Books, New York, 1987, Pg. 234), It is doubtful that the partial torso of the child had come from KAL 007 as there are no "glass" parts in the aircraft."

The comment about your website referred to the edit you made immediately prior to the large chunk of text. As for the text itself, it simply is untrue: you state "Unlike any other passenger plane disaster at sea, there were no human remains on the surface...." As Adam Air Flight 574 clearly demonstrated, there are such cases. There are others, as well. And yes, there are plenty of "glass" parts in a 747, from the cockpit windows to the light bulbs to the wine glasses in first class. You haven't done your research very well, and you are stating clear untruths. Yes, you throw a ref or two in the text, but they don't support your original research. You are taking various references, cobbling them together to support the conclusion you want to believe in. Go ahead, believe in it, write about it as much as you want on your website, but it is not appropriate here. This block is your final warning. If you engage in this behavior any futher, you will be indefinitely blocked. Please don't push things that far. You are welcome to make neutral edits that report what reliable sources are actually reporting, but nothing beyond that. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 13:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

O.K. I will refrain from further behaviour of that type. The Adam Air example was very informative. And you say that there are others where there were no bodies, body parts, ot tissues on the surface of the waters. But I got the impression that the area was rather large and there was uncertainty as to the location that the airplane came down ("However the team found no sign of aircraft wreckage at the reported crash site.[18] On January 2, 2007, the Indonesian transport minister confirmed that the plane had not yet been found". In other words, Adam Air is an example of a plane gone down at an undetermined site. I think KAL 007's search area where it was determined that KAL 007 went down was more limited - in an arc between the 12 mile limit north of Moneron in international waters, to the 12 mile territorial limit of Nevelsk on Sakhalin Island (The Island of Moneron itself is 43NM distant from Nevelsk). Plus there were no reports in the Adam Air example of divers entering an intact enough aircraft to hold the occupants-only to find none. I will abide by the rules from here on in. Thanks for your involvement, and I mean it.