Talk:2007 Western United States freeze

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[edit] This isn't notable

Isn't notable in itself, the U.S. gets a freeze every year. Would be better suited as a redirect to the ice storm article imo. – Chacor 00:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but it's not every year that snow starts falling in places like LA or Malibu. --ApolloBoy 05:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
True that, but this could and should be merged with the 2007 North American ice storm, because of the name change. and btw, I also agree with the first. This storm is overshadowed by the massive ice that the Midwest is getting.toaster 17:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree, this ought to be merged into 2007 NA Ice Storm.... I mean, it's winter, it's gonna get cold. Vedek Wren 21:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the article would probably have a larger area coverage, because it is most of the continent that are or will be in the deep freeze. Depending, on how bitterly cold in the east it will end, it may have to be added in this article. --JForget 22:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced temps/snowfall totals

What is the source for the low temperatures in the Southern California section? And the snowfall totals? Ufwuct 04:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I will be adding that. I am working on maps and pics right now, but will put in sources. Just wanted to see how it would look. 69.232.32.81 04:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem

I cannot get the SO Cal Paragraph to show up. I added references, but this is what happens when I put all references in.

[edit] Southern California

Areas that have never experienced snow in Southern California recieved a rare glimpse of it during this cold spell. January 17, 2007 brought snow to Malibu, California (3"),[1] West Los Angeles, California (2"), Santa Barbara, California (1"),[2] and Escondido, California (4"). The snow level dropped to sea level several times during this cold snap, however no precipitation fell during January 14, January 15, or January 16 in the area when temperatures were at their coldest. Records were set across Southern California for temperatures as well. January 14, 2007 saw a low of 34°F in downtown Los Angeles, a record for the day.[3] San Diego broke two records [4] hitting 35°F and 38°F on consecutive mornings. Orange County saw its lowest recorded temperature ever when both Anaheim Hills and Yorba Linda hit 25°F during this cold streak breaking the old record of 26°F in Silverado, California. Big Bear Lake in the San Bernardino Mountains reached a record low of 3°F, and Lancaster, California, a city set in the high desert of Los Angeles County reached just 3°F.[5] Many sections of the Grapevine freeway were closed due to snow, and several accidents occured as a result of black ice.

Other consequences of this cold snap in Southern California were dying palm trees and other tropical plants that have thrived here.

Never mind, fixed it. Weather1019 05:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This certainly is notable

Reference: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cold16jan16,0,487422.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines

1.1 billion dollars worth of citrus crops were destroyed. That number alone is greater than the damage of many named Atlantic hurricanes, and, I assume, they all receive pages. Mana Excalibur 18:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

And I would personally doubt that a severe freeze occurs in the U.S. every winter, irrelevant as MHO is.

[edit] Sourced?

I requested sources last night for many of the statements that follow below. For some, sources were added; for others, the request for a source was ignored. In most cases, the sources seem to be inadequate because they don't back up the statements.

Point by point:

Areas that have never experienced snow in Southern California received a rare glimpse of it during this cold spell.

This still needs a source. This source would say that at least two (as currently worded (Areas)) received snow that have never received snow before in recorded history, or in the case that one of the areas is a weather station, then since that particular weather station has been in existence. The source doesn't have to go into that level of detail, but it needs to claim it was the first snow ever for at least 2 areas.

January 17, 2007 brought snow to Malibu (3")

The source doesn't back up what was claimed. In fact, it adds further doubt to this claim. For Agoura Hills, the high was 42 and the low was 38. How exactly is it that 3" of snow accumulated in a place that did not drop below freezing the whole day, especially this far south (where solar heating of the ground still occurs, even when it's overcast), and the ground still retained some warmth from the 15th and 16th? Weather Underground shows the hourly conditions for Point Mugu, apparently the closest measuring station to Malibu, and it shows no snow. The low here was 36, the lowest temperature at which precipitation occurred was 39, and there is no mention of any snow.

January 17, 2007 brought snow to ... Santa Barbara (1")

The source doesn't back up what was claimed. In fact, it adds further doubt to this claim. High 56, low 34. Same reasoning as for Malibu.

January 14, 2007 saw a low of 34°F in downtown Los Angeles, a record for the day.

I'm confused as to why a source for Torrance is given instead of for Los Angeles. Unlike Malibu, other small cities, minor suburbs, or mountaintop sites, this is, the last time I checked, the largest city in California. Surely they should have an official measuring station downtown. (They do.) Also, the low of 34 is on the 13th according to this source, not the 14th.

Weather Underground shows a low of 36 on the 14th[1] in Downtown Los Angeles. It does appear to be a record as well, breaking the old record set in 1937. Maybe we should use 36 instead of 34.

San Diego broke two records [2] hitting 35°F and 38°F on consecutive mornings.

When I requested the source for this statement, the statement claimed lows of 35 and 36, which I did not disagree with (although there was no source). Weather Underground backs up the claim of back-to-back mornings with lows of 35 and 36.[3] What was requested, though, was a source that showed that these were both record lows. The low of 36 the first morning doesn't appear to be a record[4]. Neither does the low of 35 the next morning.[5] Is there another source that claims that these were both record lows (perhaps the measuring station has been moved since 1888 or since 1963)?

Lancaster, a city set in the high desert of Los Angeles County, reached just 3°F

This source does back up the claim. I read this last night in a different source. I may back up with another source too. Ufwuct 19:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD closed

Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-01-18. The result of the discussion was Keep.
Sorry, just had to respond to Strong keep Somebody help me. When was the last time snow fell on 30th parallel on sea level since the ice age ( in recorded history)??!.
During the 2004 Christmas Eve Snowstorm, Victoria saw 13" and is only 115 above sea level. There was snow along the coast to about 25 N. Even this year, there was snow in the valley.[6][7] It has even snowed in Miami before.
So, this event in the West is unusual, but not unheard of. It has snowed in Los Angeles before. With that in mind, it might be appropriate to merge this article with the main article for this storm system. 2004 Christmas Eve Snowstorm does not mention cold temperature records (I'm not aware of (m)any either), but the very similar article (a different storm system though) Pre-Christmas 2004 snowstorm does include the temperature information with the snowfall totals info in the same article. Also, in each article, every state which was affected is mentioned.
In the 1993 North American storm complex article, the information on the blizzard, the tornadoes, the unusual subtropical derecho in Cuba, and the low temperatures are all mentioned in the same article. This storm affected 27 states, 6 Canadian provinces, and 4+ countries. It seems that the general trend in meteorology articles of this nature is to have one article that covers everything from the same storm system. I honestly can't recall if this weather in the West was part of the same cold front that hit the eastern U.S., but if it is the same storm system, it should be in the same article. Ufwuct 00:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Related?

It may not be 2007, but it's the same winter: December 2006 Pacific Northwest storms - Keith D. Tyler (AMA) 19:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Good call. In fact, mho is to eventually see these two articles and 2007 North American Ice Storm will all merge into one Winter 2006-2007 article. Vedek Wren 21:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Temporary repository for unsourced statements

Despite the name of this section, I anticipate that these statements will be permanently removed from the article space, because no one has found a source in a month. The unsourced bits are as follows, along with what I think would be needed to reinstate the statements:


Areas that have never experienced snow in Southern California received a rare glimpse of it during this cold spell. --> CHANGED to "Areas that rarely experience..."

What it needs: A source that says at least two (because of plural wording) places that have never seen snow before received snow. It should be a reputable source and not just any local resident that says it's the first time he/she remembers snow.

January 17, 2007 brought snow to Malibu (3"), West Los Angeles (2"), Santa Barbara (1"), and Escondido (4"). --> CHANGED to remove snowfall totals, Escondido claim, and Santa Barbara claim, and to introduce vagueness about areas around Malibu and West LA, rather than a recording station. (Also, broken links need to be fixed.)

What it needs: A source that gives the snowfall totals for each of these places on these dates. These need to be recorded by an official NWS station or something similar to a trained spotter. 1" of snow on a car does not count as 1" of snow. If the depth was measured on a car somewhere, this should be noted. Even it was on grass, this should be noted so as not to mislead the reader.

The snow level dropped to sea level several times during this cold snap... --> CHANGED to "...close to sea level during..."

What it needs: A source that says that there was snow at sea level, not including a local resident being interviewed. Having temperatures at or below 32 °F, with, for instance, clear or partly cloudy skies at sea level does not count as a "snow level", and it is misleading to label it as such. And, even with precipitation present, snow can occur sometimes when the temperature is in the 40s °F and freezing rain can occur well into the mid 20s °F. We're looking for a snow level.

Orange County saw its lowest recorded temperature ever when both Anaheim Hills and Yorba Linda hit 25°F (-4°C) during this cold streak breaking the old record of 26°F in Silverado.

What it needs: A source for these temperatures at these locations AND a source saying that the 25 °F is the lowest temperature ever in Orange County (or a source that shows that the previous record in the county, as of early Jan. 2007, was higher than 25 °F).

Big Bear Lake in the San Bernardino Mountains reached a record low of 3°F (-16°C), and ...

What it needs: A source for this temperature at this location during this time period.

Ufwuct 20:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This wasn't a disaster

As far as weather events go I'd have to agree it's very unusual and certainly worth noting. The weather wasn't just cold on the coast either, in Arizona water froze in outdoor fountains and looked like an ice sculpture of falling water. It's not really a disaster though compared to the recent tornado, and certainly not compared to Hurricane Katrina. I'm removing it from the Disasters category. Anynobody 11:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Links to San Bernardino should be changed to either San Bernardino, California, San Bernardino County, California or San Bernardino Valley as the case may be. Peter Horn 19:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

And San Bernardino Mountains instead of San Bernardino Mountains. Peter Horn 19:39, 1 March 2008 (UTC)