User talk:198.102.147.253

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Devimon

Please cite a verifiable source for these digivolutions. You can use card game information, anime episode or manga appearance, or video game appearance as examples of citable sources. -- Ned Scott 22:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] gringo

Felipe, we went through this before. Please reread from April:


Felipe, you have done good work on this page. It’s informative and interesting.

It is inaccurate though to categorically state gringo is a derivation of griego. Each etymology involves speculation – that’s why the Real Academia Española does not cite the Corominas’ work as fact – so the phrasing you have is misleading. Some Mexicans think gringo applies specifically to Americans not as a derivation of “griego” but as a mutation of “guero,” which is slang for blonde. Corominas, who was Catalan, writing about a chiefly Mexican word while he lived in Chicago is like an Scotsman in Canada commenting that the word “coke” can mean orange soda in some parts of the US. I am not saying he is wrong, gringo from griego does make the most sense, but the point is it is a stretch to unconditionally label the other concepts as “folk” etymologies – especially since the term has different connotations in depending on the country. Trans-Atlantic linguistic studies looking back two or three-hundred years are difficult to rely on; the number of Spaniards arriving in the Americas from Iberia with their vernacular dwindled at the time of the independence movements, and language changes faster than dictionaries and academic studies. How can anyone be certain gringo in Mexico is not a mutated form of guero, or from the song lyrics, or the green undershirts the soldiers had on since it was too hot for their blue wool coats? The point is it is not certain and the language on the page needs to be cleaned up a bit to make that clear.

Have a look at how they do it on the Spanish wikipedia page for gringo:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

I think it’s a better tact on describing the etymology. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.50.143.215 (talk) 22:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

Interesting. Your own source says the term was already used in the 1600s-1700s. So how could it have been due to some American invasion? La palabra "gringo" aparece escrita en España en el siglo XVIII. El famoso "Diccionario Castellano con las voces de ciencias y artes" (1786-1793), compilado por el padre Esteban de Terreros y Pando, explica que la palabra gringo es usada para referirse a extranjeros que tienen dificultad para hablar castellano con naturalidad.

By the way, it's by no means a "chiefly Mexican" word. FilipeS 22:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC) “Your own source says the term was already used in the 1600s-1700s.”

Felipe, etymology is not just the study of where and when a word first appeared.

I referred you to the Spanish version so you would read the way the author expresses an idea that is “probably” the case:

Lo más probable es que "gringo" es una deformación de la palabra "griego".

The language you use to phrase the same idea claims the Corominas etymology is a certainty—it's not!

Also, your “etymology” does not take many things like this into account:

Hay un gran debate sobre cuál versión es la correcta: que si viene del español "griego" o del inglés "green grow ...".No es nada fuera de lo común que una palabra cambie de significado y de origen. Por ejemplo, la palabra "cachar" primero venía de "cacho", pero después llegó del inglés "catch" y cambió de significado. Al principio la palabra gringo sólo significaba "extranjero", pero después de la guerra entre México y Estados Unidos, pasó a especificar despectivamente a alguien de origen Inglés.

Anyway, I don’t know how much experience you have with reading Spanish, but the es.wiki gringo page has other things which would add to this text—for example this above about the word’s change in meaning from foreigner to American or European/white etc. over time, and the Buenos Aires English-invasion explanation. All of these themes should be listed under “etymology.”

You’re right, saying gringo is “chiefly Mexican” is not quite right!

Well, I don't disagree that the article could be rewritten to be more nuanced. (Incidentally, I thank you for your compliment, but I've actually contributed very little to it, myself.) However, that does not change the fact that some of the proposed folk etymologies are nonsensical or suspiciously "just-so" stories. You are welcome to rephrase the article more carefully, as I think you might have been trying to do. I just think you should be careful not to give equal weight to explanations with unequal plausibility (even if none of them can ever be established with 100% certainty). That was why I reverted the changes you made. Another interesting point about the article in the Spanish-language Wikipedia is that it makes it clear that Corominas is not the only source who says the origin of "gringo" is "griego". Regards. FilipeS 11:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

---

The proper place to discuss this is the talk page of the article, not my user talk page. FilipeS 16:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] January 2008

Hi, the recent edit you made to San Julián, Jalisco has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thanks. ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 07:51, 23 January 2008 (UTC)