Talk:μTorrent

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the ΜTorrent article.
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This article was nominated for deletion on 23 September 2005. The result of the discussion was NO CONSENSUS, which defaults to KEEP.

Contents 1 it's nanotorrent NOT microtorrent! 2 µTorrent is great ! 3 List on the page 4 uTorrent vs. mTorrent 5 Upcoming features 6 External links 7 Requested move 7.1 Discussion 8 Adware 9 µ not μ 10 Please move to uTorrent 11 April 2006 cleanup 12 Moved to UTorrent 13 Correct title is uTorrent? 14 Mobile Interface Screenshot 15 Size 16 Link spam 17 The greek letter 'mu' 18 Requested move 18.1 Survey 18.2 Discussion 19 got bought by bittorent, page should reflect that 20 Move back.. again? 21 Speculation 22 Is downloading legal or not? 23 image 24 Planned Features. 25 heres the screenshot 26 bit o' POV 27 Easter Eggs 28 Criticism 29 M? 30 Deleted controversy and closed source sections 31 Major Bugs 32 Linux and Mac OS X versions 33 Why is uTorrent faster than other clients? 34 utorrent data lost 35 muTorrent 36 Influence 37 Criticism 16 April 2008 38 Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTorrent 1.7.2.png 39 Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTris.png 40 Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTorrent 1.7.2.png 41 Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTris.png

[edit] it's nanotorrent NOT microtorrent!

microtorrent is wrong, it has to be nanotorrent!

it's micro, symbol for nano is n —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Snappyfool (talk • contribs) 12:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] µTorrent is great !

I'm stuck out in the country where highspeed internet connections are not available. Yes, I use a 56k modem. Aaargh! Anyways, µTorrent has a scheduler option that allows the user to set the upload and download speeds for every hour of every day of the week. This handy option allows me to have µTorrent running in the background while I use the internet. I use 2.0 kB/s download and 1.0 kB/s upload and it does not cause any noticable lagg. When I'm not using the internet I put µTorrent on full throttle (which because of my connection, is slower than a snail stuck in cold molassis). Torrents stay available for download for days, weeks and even sometimes months allowing people with 56k connections to download large files.

The talk page is really for discussion of the article, not the place for user testimonials. I appreciate that you support the software, but that's really not what this space is for. Canonblack 14:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List on the page

The list of features is ripped right from the µT homepage. [1] Needs to be rewritten, I've done enough work on the page for now :) splintax ^(talk) 08:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] uTorrent vs. mTorrent

Judging from the information on the Wikipedia page for Micro, the μ symbol should be replaced with a u, not an m. Therefore, I think this page should really be renamed uTorrent (with UTorrent appearing in the title due to MediaWiki restrictions). Any comments?

LinkTiger 02:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd agree with that. This article says it's sometimes known as uTorrent, but doesn't say it's sometimes known as mTorrent. Also, the website is utorrent.com, not mtorrent.com. KeithD 09:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Errr...it's not "mTorrent" or "MTorrent", it's "ΜTorrent". The Μ is not an M - it is not a capital m, it is a capital µ (mu), the greek character that represents the SI prefix micro. Nobody is calling it mTorrent or MTorrent. Μ and M are different, they just look the same (like Alpha and A, or Beta and B, or Epsilon and E, or Omicron and O, or Zeta and Z, or Rho and P, or Chi and X, or Upsilon and Y).

Interesting point. I guess that makes sense, then. --Gary King 06:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. ΜTorrent is the way to go, especially since it we have the redirect at uTorrent already. Maybe we should subst: {{lowercase|title=µTorrent}} to explain the M-lookalike thing? splintax ^(talk) 06:08, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

It makes little sense whatsoever to call it mtorrent. The downloaded exe is named "utorrent.exe". mtorrent bring back 600 results on google. utorrent brings back 671,000. As you claim before "like Alpha and A, or Beta and B, or Epsilon and E, or Omicron and O, or Zeta and Z, or Rho and P, or Chi and X, or Upsilon and Y" it would make sense to call this articke Mutorrent. The first two returns for mtorrent are wikipedia which by itself cas created this "mtorrent" I see the argument above saying its a standard on WP, however i think the authors preference, should precede anything else. Therefore I think a vote is in order, and my vote is utorent -wabiD

It makes little sense whatsoever to call it mtorrent Agreed, but uTorrent directs here, so it's okay. But I guarantee that no-one comes to Wikipedia cold and types in MTorrent looking for the article on uTorrent --Paul 10:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, all *nix references for micro use 'u'. There's no reason to use a 'M' here. --Scandum 21:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

With 5 vs 2 votes on changing the article's name I'm making the change. Especially the program's website using 'utorrent' instead of 'mtorrent' is a strong argument that shouldn't be ignored. --Scandum 21:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Alas, I can't move it, so going about this the official way. --Scandum 21:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Added a voting section at the bottom of the page. Talk:ΜTorrent#Requested_move

[edit] Upcoming features

µTorrent Translation System is a feature of the community, not the program. Moved to external links.

[edit] External links

Is the forums link really necessary? The program's forum is clearly linked to on utorrent.com which is also included in the External Links section. dc 20:57, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adware

According to our article Adware or advertising-supported software is any software package which automatically plays, displays, or downloads advertising material to a computer after the software is installed on it or while the application is being used.

µT displays ads when it is used to search for certain terms. This is different to software that blasts you with popups left, right and center but µT still meets the definition for adware. WP 07:48, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Except for the automatically part, I hadn't realised there were ads until this little edit war --Paul 08:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I read it as automatically .. displays .. advertising material .. while the application is being used. If you use it a certain way you will automatically get ads. WP 08:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The difference is that it's not shown in the client, it's shown on the search website. This would be like linking to Mininova or some other tracker and getting your program labeled as adware because of the ads on the site. 70.45.50.121 19:02, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should call it freeadware :P I guess the bone of contention is that the term adware is kind of pejorative, which is a little unfair --Paul 11:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Q.v. 'admail'. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:23, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Using this reasoning Firefox is adware as well because the google search bar leads to google.com which can contain ads based on the filled in search words.

All operating systems with internet capability fall under this description, as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.37.218 (talk) 15:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The last paragraph added to the Peerfactor section needs to be rewritten (and into another section at that). I removed it because it has no sources, isn't well written, and is just speculation (stating that µTorrent is affiliated with UseNeXT and that UseNeXT is a scam). Affiliation is not the same thing as showing an ad, and "advertisement" doesn't need to be explicitly stated for it to be one.

[edit] µ not μ

Someone changed all the µs(U+00B5) to μs(U+03BC). I reverted because the official site uses U+00B5. WP 09:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

µ (00B5) is the "Micro" sign. μ (03BC) is the lowercase latin letter mu. So it isn't "mutorrent" it is "microtorrent". -- 82.152.177.94 22:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please move to uTorrent

Please move this page to uTorrent (any admins listening??). The author calls it u-Torrent and the official site is www.utorrent.com and this page must also be moved --Rrjanbiah 13:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

See the discussion above, the common naming convention (as opposed to the strictly correct, but less likely to be used name) appears not to apply here --Paul 19:17, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why you're asking for admins, since anybody can move it. The author does not call it "u-Torrent", he calls it µTorrent, as that's what the program's called.

Damn it! It's been long time.. and nothing has been changed from lame fight. Anyway, please speak through data--he calls it you-torrent. And, I wasn't found the move link and just found it. --Rrjanbiah 13:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I do believe that he's referred to it as uTorrent before, but that's simply for the sake of convenience. The official site is utorrent.com to make it easy for en-US keyboard layout users to visit it. As Paul said, we're using the "correct" name, rather than the "commonly used" name. There's no problem in any case, as uTorrent redirects here. splintax ^(talk) 14:23, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, but I was arguing that WP guidelines seem to suggest that the overwhelmingly more common term (utorrent wins 855K to 36K in a google fight) as being the better choice. --Paul 16:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

As the Google test above and the software's own website show, uTorrent would be a better title. -Grick(^{talk to me!}) 20:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I've changed my stance after reading the page on naming conventions.

When choosing a name for a page ask yourself: What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine?

Most people would type "uµTorrent". I'm going to WP:BB and move the article now.

I'm afraid, Wikipedia is lost on the bureaucracy; it's been long time and no takers to move this page? For my level of access, I couldn't move this page as the uTorrent page is already existing. --Rrjanbiah 13:07, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think it should me moved. As long as mTorrent and uTorrent redirect here, there shouldn't really be any problem. The name's officially µTorrent. Please note that what looks like a capital em in the page title is actually a capital Greek letter µ (mu). It is only because of the the url's inability to express sepcial characters like µ and because of the difficulty or incovenience for the average user of writing µ that the program is known as uTorrent. Theshibboleth 06:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Even if it is the capital mu, it still makes little sense to anybody who has just arrived at the page. Very few people are going to search for it this program in the English wikipedia using greek letters, either upper or lower case, and even fewer are going to be aware Μ is the capital of μ. They will search for "utorrent" for the reasons you state. Leaving it on this page seems overly pedantic imo. --Frantik 15:13, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe it's causing any problems the way it is. The redirect works fine. The only forseeable problem is that if something else came along later calling itself MTorrent. --ozzmosis 07:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, think about the situation when 'ozzmosis' redirects to 'f000'; would you agree with it? --Rrjanbiah 11:43, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

For your analogy to be correct, the redirect would need to be for technical reasons. Then only the article title would be wrong, with a clear explanation in the article header, with the rest of the article using whatever was most common, and I would accept that. Which is how I feel about this article. --ozzmosis 16:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, for whoever said that Wikipedia guidelines suggest you name the article after what people type into the search bar, there's a lot of articles that don't. Eg. More people would type 'Ecstasy' over 'Methylenedioxymethamphetamine', or 'Smell' over 'Offaction'. I think we should stick with what is technically correct and not what the author of the program types for ease of use. Hanshi 15:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

UTorrent is the name of the offical website, so I think it should be called that. I know that "U" cannot replace the meaning of the Greek symbol. But what happens if you type "mutorrent.com" or "mtorrent.com" in the address bar, neither of them addresses go to the UTorrent website! I would move the article myself, but it would only get reverted a few seconds later. --Tickopa 19:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] April 2006 cleanup

I am the one who initially added the Controversy section, after noticing the Slyck News article. It seems to have provoked a flurry of edits expanding and responding to the situation, and not all of these edits have been phrased very well or appropriately sourced. Therefore I added a {{cleanup}} template and made some notes in HTML comments within the section itself. Please see those comments for what needs to be changed or added. I also asked for a citation for a source of info about the new PeerFactor company being formed by disgruntled employees of the old.—mjb 17:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Added that citation a while back, and cleared up the closed source argument, since it is completely untrue that it is not possible to determine exactly what closed-source apps are doing.70.45.49.169 03:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the citation. Re: closed source, you didn't really "clear it up"; you just raised an interesting point to consider about closed source apps not being completely opaque. However, while it is possible to observe the behavior of any application, that's of little comfort to the average BitTorrent user, who is in no position to put their privacy on the line while they go to a great deal of trouble (more trouble than it would be to inspect source code and do local builds) to scour and decrypt TCP packets in an effort to determine whether the app is sending info to places it shouldn't. To date, there is no evidence that anyone has undertaken such an effort on any BitTorrent client or ruled out any possibilities, whereas there is evidence that people prefer to wash their hands of µTorrent and migrate to clients about which (or about whose developers) they feel more confident, regardless of what objective arguments may exist that might alleviate their concerns. So I tried to address this in the article today, while retaining your point about closed source apps being observable.—mjb 19:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it isn't feasible for the average user, but since no one has properly audited any client (to my knowledge), it is possible for any of them to be doing it right now without anyone's knowledge. Open source can make it easier, but there's a lot of code, and a lot of ways to obfuscate code. I like your edits so far though, and thanks for keeping the counter-point in there. You did a good job cleaning up the entire section.

--- Thoughts: --- While I agree there should be some reference to the Contoversy, I think it needs to be toned down a little in regards to the current ųTorrent client, the issues are about the authors motivations (need for money) is related to him writing the PROTOCOL for their program which has nothing to do with the current incarnation of the ųTorrent client software (having being written and released prior to the contract) perhaps noting ramifications for future releases although the author does dispute that the client will be tied into any other ventures. (commercial programmers working for one vendor then moving to another vendor to work on a similer product) 194.73.67.254 18 April 2006

By the way, U+00B5 (Alt 0181) µ is the correct character, not the one you're using :) I don't know how to tone that down (and perhaps move it into the author's article?), so I'll leave it for someone to do if they think it's necessary. 70.45.49.169 14:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the cleanup template; there are still a couple of things that need to be expanded upon (comments are still in the source), but overall, the tail end of the controversy section is looking better now. Now I seem to be in a small edit war over the paragraph that discusses closed-source. I like that we seem to agree on phrasing like "no evidence has (yet) been published that it does" instead of "in fact, it doesn't", but apparently my fellow editor still thinks it is utterly trivial to detect, in an application that has dozens of network connections to essentially random sources going at any one time, that one of the connections is not a legitimate peer but is actually the application phoning home with my private info (encrypted, perhaps) via some relay…just for a not-so-implausible example. We can speculate all we want about what the software might be doing and how easy it is to monitor, but no evidence has been presented that the average user of this software is technically savvy enough to do the kind of monitoring that would need to be done in order for the "it's possible to see what a closed-source app is doing" argument to be a reasonable dismissal of the claims of the paranoid, so we must not characterize their fears as illegitimate. Also, if I understand the critics' concerns correctly, they are worried more about what the application will do in future revisions, not necessarily what it's doing right now.—mjb 00:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Good work dude. Looks like this baby's comin out real nice. I fixed it up to look nicer. See you guys later maybe.XYZABC 00:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved to UTorrent

Most english users are going to be searching for uTorrent, not μTorrent, so I moved the page. In addition to causing slightly less server strain, it reduce confusion for people arriving at ΜTorrent, since most English speakers aren't familiar with the greek alphabet. -- Frantik 05:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC) 15:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

And here was me thinking Wikipedia was meant to be factually correct, not aesthetically-pleasing... --Hanshi 19:00, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Correct title is uTorrent?

Hey, I can agree with making the title of the page UTorrent (since µTorrent isn't allowed and UTorrent > MTorrent), but it looks kinda stupid saying the correct title is uTorrent when what we're really working around is µTorrent. I'm reluctant to simply substitute u for µ in the lowercase template because capital µ isn't a U, so what do you guys think?--Cyberdude93 10:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

the correct title of the article is uTorrent. The correct title of the program is μTorrent. :) --Frantik 21:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Feh, I'll bite. I still think the article name would not be uTorrent if lowercase letters were allowed, it'd be µTorrent (with a redirect from uTorrent of course). While it's true we're directly not using uTorrent because of technical restrictions, we're not using µTorrent indirectly because of technical restrictions; because we end up with MTorrent and uTorrent is a more common form.

Maybe none of the actual Wikipedia technical restriction templates apply well here, but uTorrent still isn't the actual name here.--Cyberdude93 17:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The page should definately never be called ΜTorrent because it isn't called μTorrent, it's µTorrent. That means it is "microTorrent" not "muTorrent". There is no capital micro sign, and the micro sign itself can't be used so it has to be uTorrent due to technical limitations. -- 82.152.177.94 22:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Anyway I still believe that the page should be under UTorrent on wikipedia as it is the name of the offical website. The only time I have ever heard this program called MTorrent or MuTorrent, is on the Wikipedia pages and personally I didn't know if I was in the correct article. --I am Tickopa 91.84.42.196 19:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC) uTorrent forever

I agree that the article should be renamed to UTorrent, simply because it's the substitute name / transcription in use. It's the name of the original program file, the Windows process, and of the original website. MTorrent is never mentioned and is therefore confusing as the name of this article. I've added a rename/move request to WP:Requested_moves. Subversive element 12:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I understand that the retarded wikipedia software forces you to call it UTorrent, but this is clearly wrong: The correct title of this article is µTorrent. The initial letter is shown capitalized due to technical restrictions. µ capitalized doesn't give U, sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.75.71 (talk) 19:50, 9 December 2006

Thanks for pointing that out. I've changed it. -SpuriousQ 20:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mobile Interface Screenshot

Umm, the image shows the user downloading warez, I'm not sure if this is allowed or not, but it would probably be best to replace it. Any thoughts? --Mincetro 11:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I really see no prob' with it, it's only an image. The text makes no direct (verifiable) reference to downloaded content, so there's no possibility of infringement of "rights" and all that crap. (Plus: I doubt that cell phone could have downloaded gigs of data...) But if some dudes out there might worry, a little blurring of the torrent names (nothing else) could do the trick which is usually done (for privacy or whatever).XYZABC 11:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It is a web interface, so the gigs of data are most probably being downloaded to a home PC. The mobile phone is just checking on the status of the downloads. WP 00:52, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

That's not the point... I think the pic should be removed - it shows a german swearword "Arschfotze"

Too bad. Wikipedia is not censored. XYZABC 19:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the screenshot is somewhat questonable. Bit Torrent has faced lots of accusations for being a piracy (copyright infringement, if you prefer that term) tool. Having a screenshot of pirated stuff just supports the argument. For NPOV, the screenshot ought to contain legal stuff.

[edit] Size

Alright, that little part in Development under History was changed, and I guess I have forgotten how small the program was ("more than doubled" means "less than half of ver. 1.6"). So could somebody say what size it actually was at its first public release so it doesn't look like a false or exaggerated claim?XYZABC 19:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The first public release was 77KiB. 70.45.49.36 22:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link spam

This is getting reall rediculous. Every day pretty much now I'm reverting the same link over and over. And the guy doesn't even have the same IPs. Unless someone forgot to tell me about something else, semi-protection is good for this kind of situation (at least temporarily), right?

[edit] The greek letter 'mu'

The name of the greek letter which is prefix to 'torrent' is 'mu'. The pronounciation of the letter however, is simply equivalent to the english 'm'. I've corrected the error. -Ray

• I got bored of people blabering about utorrent/μtorrent's name.I'm greek so I know about it.

Μ/μ in greek is spelled μι(this is a greek font) or mi in english,not mu. So it is called microtorrent(because of it's size) as well as utorrent.--Aqmaster 13:08, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
M/µ is spelled mu in ancient greek and mi or mu in modern greek.Ihope22:22, 11 january 2008

[edit] Requested move

[edit] got bought by bittorent, page should reflect that

utorrent just got bought, should probably be in the page but I don't know here to put it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.120.85.115 (talk) 03:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Move back.. again?

By adding {{lowercase}} at the top of the article µTorrent can be displayed correctly. I suggest we do this and move things back to µTorrent. --Scandum 13:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support. I didn't know we could do this, or would have done it myself. µTorrent is the correct title. -SpuriousQ 22:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Support. µTorrent is most certainly the proper name, though many users don't type it that way out of convenience. Likewise, a lot of people call Röyksopp Royksopp just because it's easier. That doesn't mean it's correct. --LakeHMM 04:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Software is named by its developers, not by its users. Facts are not determined by public opinion or popular convention. Such disputes are often referred to as popular misconceptions. Should Wikipedians rename the George W. Bush article 'Dubya' or the Bill Clinton article 'Slick Willy' simply because of popular nicknames? 68.58.28.162

[edit] Speculation

I don't think an encyclopedia article is a good place for speculative claims or really even mentioning them. Encyclopedias are supposed to contain known and documented facts, not varying opinions. I mean is this an encyclopedia article or an argument thread?

A basic principle of logic is that if you make a claim then the burden of proof is on you. Until it can somehow be proven that these speculations are based in fact, it isn't appropriate (in my opinion_ to mention them.

This is true. What in the article are you addressing, specifically? -SpuriousQ 21:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It does seem to be a pretty NPOV article, the speculation about what work a coder actually did for a contracted company is a bit out of place. Someone tried to write it to sound non-biased, but didn't really pull it off :) At least some rebuttal is needed, such as the fact that Ludde founded and created at least one pretty major, and trusted, open-source project (ScummVM). -- Unsigned —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.15.140.129 (talk) 05:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Is downloading legal or not?

Is downloading content with UTorrent legal or not? How can the user know/verify that the content has been correctly licensed and can be used and shared and downloaded/uploaded? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.53.102.201 (talk) 07:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

• Most Linux live CD distributions (.iso) have a torrent tracker, so it all depends on the content. WalrusMan118 21:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• μTorrent is a neutral download program that can be used to download any kind of material made available through a .torrent file. Whether the download of that material is legal depends on (your) local laws. µtorrent and other BitTorrent clients are for as far as I know not responsible for the actions of their users in any country. Neither is µtorrent responsible for helping you determine whether the content you try to download with a loaded .torrent file is legal or not in any country. I personally consider µtorrent in a similar position as an internet browser such as IE, Firefox and Opera. They are not responsible for those things either. Lord Alderaan 16:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] image

I have a screenshot of uTorrent on the 'speed' tab which I think would be interesting to add into this article. Let me know if I should upload it.

[edit] Planned Features.

I have deleted the planned features. I think they will not be anymore of utorrent because they been brought. Also adding planned features violates WP:CRYSTAL. --SkyWalker 03:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] heres the screenshot

Heres a screenshot of the "speed tab" on uTorrent, if you think its useful feel free to add it to the article: http://i16.tinypic.com/48zkx9v.png —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.146.236.11 (talk) 19:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] bit o' POV

There was a bit of POV in the many mentions of the program's size in KiB. So I trimmed that back, putting all the detailed numbers in the ==Size== section.

1. Can someone round up some reviews, aside from the controversial issues?
2. A brief summary of "skins" would be helpful. Lotsa folks like skins.
3. An established source for the sale: http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/12/08/HNbittorrentbuys_1.html

--Lexein 20:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Easter Eggs

Renamed Trivia to Easter Eggs. --Lexein 23:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

SO cool! I never knew about the hidden tetris game! That's is just SWEET! 72.192.135.223 19:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Reinstated the Easter Eggs article that someone seems to have deleted without checking about it's usefulness. Frosset Mareritt
07:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the point of including them? They're against WP:TRIVIA and WP:IINFO. --Saber^Excalibur! 06:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

In uTorrent's case, the app's remarkably small size, and the presence of two Easter Eggs, makes them notable at least as a footnote. I concede that the image of uTris may not survive a relevance cull, and that the EEs may belong either in Features or as a footnote. WP is not a User's Manual is why I trimmed off the "p" and nav keys text. --Lexein (talk) 15:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Servant_Saber, could you please point out where exactly "Easter Eggs" are mentioned in the guides that you linked above? ∴ AlexSm 16:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

"As explained in the policy introduction, merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia." I could be inclined to agree with that the inclusion of easter eggs in such a small program, even if it is only a publicity stunt, might warrant inclusion. However, in no larger extent than a line or two under Features, not it's own top-level header, and not without a source on what makes the easter eggs notable. Simply including it because "that's how it is" is nothing but WP:OR and your personal POV. --Saber^Excalibur! 17:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I moved Eastern Eggs section, already minimized to justifiable size by Lexein, to the Features section and placed it directly below the size subsection so that the article flows nicely. I removed the importance template because I anticipate Saber agrees with this new setup because it complies with his inclination. Correct me if I'm wrong. I also merged the two separate Eastern Eggs discussions into one. --Lord Alderaan (talk) 14:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

• moved to TALK

"This program has been criticized because its GUI looks like Azureus', and due to Azureus-like features such as: Swarm, Download Bar which shows Downloaded and Availability, and the Tab-like feature or the Advanced Tab in Azureus."

- If true, let's see some non-blog non-forum non-wiki sources. --Lexein 17:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

- http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=251 It's interesting... Chewyfood says µTorrent looks more like Rufus, and it's true, it looks more like Rufus than it does Azureus. Does that mean Rufus copied Azureus too? Many clients look similar to each other -- get over it. Azureus isn't so special that it became the entire source of inspiration. --Arbitrarynick 20:40, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] M?

While the article itself has been successfully renamed µTorrent, the edit and history pages all say MTorrent still. Why is that? 71.185.139.57 23:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• Because it wasn't successfully renamed. It's a sham accomplished by {{lowercase| µTorrent}}. The whole "M" debacle was foisted on the article by rather viciously opinionated editors who:

1. Prioritize Wiki-rules capitalization of the greek letter mu and

2. Prioritize use of the greek letter "mu" over the english letter "u" as used in the name of the executable file on the computer, web URI, and documentation

3. Prioritize their wanky linqua-purism over the software author's expressed intent(see Pronunciation).

As in all things Wikipedia, the shrillest, largest-lunged editors tend to get their way, either by just being bigger bullies, being admins, or by subterfuge (using little-used Wikipedia functions) to present the appearance of appeasing their critics. --Lexein 01:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, I stopped regular editing of Wikipedia ages ago after running into one too many of these prats.

I would support a move to u if there's a new proposed rename, but it isn't a big deal anymore. I don't know whether {{lowercase}} is little-known, but it is widely used. –Pomte 01:44, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

stricken --Lexein 01:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• Edit warring over this must stop, well-intentioned though it may be. The cut/paste move was against policy - I didn't know that either. The article needs to be cleanly moved from MTorrent to UTorrent by an administrator, since some deletion of redirects are required en route. --Lexein 19:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted controversy and closed source sections

Most software is closed source and they assume bad faith were there is none. There is no evidence that this software contains spyware, rootkits or viruses anywhere on the internet, because it doesn't. I've used every version of this software including the current beta and it categorically isn't malware. Propagating paranoia isn't the job of wikipedia. Operating 17:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

• Reverted, and copyedited. Since it's controversial, deletion of a section MUST be accompanied by DISCUSSION in TALK. Whitewashing is POV, and is strictly prohibited. The SUSPICION of spyware was reported in citable sources. The SUSPICION of privacy loss due to ad tracking was reported in citable sources. All that's missing here is proper citations from those citable sources, to replace the forum cites. --Lexein 06:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• There are no citable sources and until there are these sections have to be DELETED! Forum posts and blog posts are NOT evidence. Spreading misinformation/speculation in the HOPE that citable sources will appear is not acceptable! Operating 13:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• I added a bit to the Closed Source section to reduce the (in my opinion large) likelihood someone interpreted it as a warning that spycode in µTorrent is likely. Lord Alderaan 14:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• You are right, the closed source section simply says this software contains spyware, when it doesn't. And the peerfactor SARL section simply says the author of this software can't be trusted. Once again without citable evidence.Operating 14:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• The introduction of the whole Controversy section addresses this issue. Although by the time people get through the whole section they might have forgotten about the introduction. Lord Alderaan 15:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• I have deleted the closed source section again. It fails wikipedia:verifiability Any statement without citable evidence can be deleted at any time. This section can only be restored if a reliable citation is found which says "utorrent may/does contain spyware because it is closed source". Sorry, i know you're a good guy! Operating 07:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

• True, but it being closed source is a valid part of the controversy. Maybe it shouldn't be worded as a accusation or possibility but as a informative section about the (baseless) claims that were made and are still made about µtorrent. Lord Alderaan 12:30 7 May 2007 (UTC)

• I can see what you are saying, but you say yourself the claims are "baseless" and we both know there isn't any evidence anywhere on the internet that says "utorrent may/does contain spyware because it is closed source". It is noted elsewhere in the article that utorrent is closed source so the fact hasn't been ignored. If you could find an article that says "in general" closed source software is more prone to spyware and word it in a neutral way this would be ok. But i think its probly still going to look like an accusation and its best left unsaid. If spyware is ever put in utorrent with a user base of millions it'll be detected within hours and be all over digg/ slashdot. At that time the article can be updated. Operating 13:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

• The topic is the accusation of µTorrent containing Spyware, not the fact that µTorrent contains Spyware (which it doesn't). For this section to be valid it doesn't need a citable source that µTorrent contains Spyware or that its likely/posible but it needs a citable source that this accusation was/is being made on a large enough scale to become a 'controversy' (regardless of it being baseless and false). However I can't find such sources either at this time and thus agree with the viewpoint that Closed Source as a controversy need not be mentioned. If someone comes with an article or other valid source about this accusation it is my opinion that this section could and should be readded. --Lord Alderaan 12:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• I agree, if citable sources become available and a neutral comment is passed it can be readded.Operating 13:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• Congratulations. User:Operating has successfully bullied, gutted, owned, and whitewashed the article. I found the cites:CNET, WIRED, Information Week, but I'm not going to add them. Fuck this shit. Fucking fanbois. --Lexein 12:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• I care about neutrality. Your comment here simply says you don't care about neutrality. Operating 13:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
• Gut away, fanboi. This isn't the first article I've abandoned due to aggressive gaming like yours. --Lexein 14:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• Yes we are both µtorrent users but that is beside the issue. I just searched for any source about utorrent possibly containing spyware and couldn't find anything even remotely useful. No (false-)positives by anti-spyware software, no articles on wired, CNET or through different google search queries. Except for a few topics on the µtorrent forum itself there wasn't much about spyware in utorrent I could find at all. The only citable link I found is that BitTorrent Inc. opposes spyware and addware in the privacy policy of the µtorrent website: http://www.utorrent.com/privacy.php So if µtorrent doesn't contain spyware and if there hasn't been a widespread accusation either what exactly DO you want mentioned in a closed source / spyware section? We could say a couple of people have felt uneasy about it and link to the µtorrent forum but thats about it. --Lord Alderaan 13:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• He's a utorrent user as well, same name on the forums. You are of course right Lord Alderaan. There are no credible sources to back up the bias that was in this article. Millions of people use this software happily every day. There just is no controversy worthy of words like "backlash", "suspicion" and "paranoia". What there is are 2 bits of information about ads and peerfactor which have been commented upon and are in the past.Operating 15:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• Lexein: http://gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/features/110788.shtml
  I see *no* indication of fanboyism from either Lord Alderaan or Operating. On the other hand, I see a case of anti-fanboyism from you (see #6 in the link). Granted, GamePro's article isn't the be-all-end-all definition of fanboyism, but you know, it's hit a lot of valid points on the head.
  
  It's funny -- if you want to prove your point, providing articles would *obviously* be the best way to make your case. If you're gonna back out because of a fear of "fanbois" where there is none to begin with, I must question whether you really have your proof. Lord Alderaan and Operating have *clearly* shown that they're open to readding parts of the article should new citable sources come up, but if you're not gonna cough 'em up, then no one here's losing but yourself. Arbitrarynick 05:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major Bugs

Versions 1.7 and 1.7.1 were banned on some of the private trackers and there has been a lot of discussion about it on the forums. Although these versions deserved to be banned the rumors about MPIAA/RIAA involvement returned and I decided it might be noteworthy enough to mention on the wikipedia thread. If you disagree, think its POV or have any other suggestion for drastic (not minor) change I hope we can discuss it here first. Lord Alderaan 10:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Since this controversy has been happening for over a year now on this talk page, and considering the popularity of Wikipedia, I think this article and talk page are the biggest source of fuel for the rumors. I would vote to leave it off until proven otherwise. (Reminds me of the point Stephen Colbert made in tripling the elephant population on Wikepedia. It also reminds me of a song from the old TV show Heehaw "...you'll never here one of us repeating gossip, so you better listen close here the first time.") Nxtcru 01:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

You are right. The bit about the rumors falls under the discussion about the controversy above. I will remove the last sentence. The bugs itself and the banning are fact. I hope to be able to find refs for the bannings. The trackers in question can't be reffed because they are private (you can't get to the page without logging in and they won't like being reffed). For those interested in what was going on I just found this while looking for refs and the reply pretty much sums up what probably happened: http://filesharingplace.be/forums/index.php?showtopic=173872 Lord Alderaan 11:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Linux and Mac OS X versions

Perhaps the article should mention that Mac OS X and Linux versions are being developed (the Mac OS one is, I believe, in private beta testing). dr.alf 04:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is uTorrent faster than other clients?

uTorrent is faster than other clients (azureus, bittorrent, even faster than btdownloadheadless.py) when it is used in a fast network (lan, e.g.) Emulating uTorrent with wine has the same effect

uTorrent can handle the full bandwidth of a 100Mbit Lan while other clients use a maximum of 2MB/s I do not have test results, just noticed it on my own network.

Can someone explain why?

91.7.70.108 19:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] utorrent data lost

for some reason i lost all of my downloads on utorrent so i cant see it or access it on utorrent but the songs i can still hear on my itunes wat gives???? HELP!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.8.85 (talk) 21:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] muTorrent

The article starts with 'µTorrent (also microTorrent or uTorrent)'. People keep adding muTorrent to it. The pronunciation paragraph in the article and the 'move' discussions on this talk page have made it clear that muTorrent is not intended by the author. Also I myself hang around in both a variety of BitTorrent communities and on dedicated µtorrent communities (official forum and irc) and I've hardly ever seen it used. There seems no basis at all for its addition but if anyone has good reason to add muTorrent again please discuss it here first. Lord Alderaan (talk) 00:25, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Again someone (User:Fabartus) edited Pronunciation relevant info. Mu as pronunciation has been discussed and discarded a couple of times including a HTML comment in the page itself stating Another pronunciation is "mu-torrent" since this is the name of the Greek letter "μ". -- true but actually not notable: no proof that the developer, or any established journalist, ever used or would use this pronunciation. -- Lexein I've removed this in favor of a simpler comment. Also that Ludde wasn't native to English is not relevant as he obviously spoke enough English to write a English piece of software and communicated almost exclusively in English on his own website and forum. What IS relevant is that the usage of Mu as pronunciation is virtually none-existent. Get us some proof before adding it again. --Lord Alderaan 15:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It may be true that the pronunciation MuTorrent was not intended, but the actual word "µTorrent" - divorced from any intention of pronunciation - can only really be correctly pronounced one of two ways in English: MicroTorrent or MuTorrent. I know that the character "micro" and the Greek letter µ are different in Unicode, but typographically they're the same and they look the same, since the Greek letter is the actual origin of the "micro" character. If a mathematician were asked orally how to write the prefix for "micro", he would say "the Greek letter mu." Also see Wikipedia's own page for Micro-. Since "Torrent" is not a unit of measurement, reading "µTorrent" as MicroTorrent is not natural when reading the word without any knowledge of what was intended; the natural reading is MuTorrent. Like the musician µ-Ziq. Although I will continue to call it MuTorrent, since... that's what it says, of course I agree that the article should state the intended pronunciation. But I also think it should say that it naturally would be pronounced MuTorrent - with the modifier that the developer has not stated it as a possible pronunciation - because he hasn't stated that it ISN'T a possible pronunciation either. 193.91.181.142 (talk) 00:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC) (Nick)

The fact that the µ is derived is from the greek Mu is mentioned, it is simply not mentioned as a pronunciation. The reason for the pronunciation section is to show common practices and intentions because it isn't always exactly clear how to pronounce it when you first read it. You have a reasonable basis for why you and others might pronounce it as Mu Torrent but it doesn't seem to be a widespread pronunciation. I don't think stating that a small number of people for whatever reason (etymological correct or not) might have considered a certain pronunciation first would fall within the scope of this section. There might be a whole bunch of pronunciations to list as 'not common or intended' and would we start listing them too and where would you fairly draw the line? --Lord Alderaan (talk) 10:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Influence

I just removed the influence section which falsly or at least without proof stated that µTorrent is based on the G3 client. I remember having a discussion about GUI influences on the official forums a long time ago. And the outcome was that Ludde based most of the GUI on mainline. However I couldn't find any confirmation about this. So instead of correcting it I removed the section until someone can come up with quotable facts about the influences on µTorrent. --Lord Alderaan 15:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism 16 April 2008

• The following was moved to Talk [3]:

Some people believe that µTorrent downloading speed degraded noticeably in new versions^{[citation needed]} published after µTorrent was purchased by BitTorrent, Inc..

µTorrent built-in RSS feed reader received some criticism when it was discovered that this reader does not obey XML specifications. Namely it accepts malformed RSS XML feeds with unescaped characters, such as «&» instead of «&». When asked to correct this behaviour, Greg "alus" Hazel refused to do so: "The fact that this is not valid XML is not a fault of uTorrent. In fact, it's quite common, so uTorrent parses it either way.", and admitted that µTorrent "indulges web developers breaking the Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 specification by implementing non-standard XML parsing behaviour"[4]

The first part about Speeds is vague (Some People believe) and fails to provide any sources. The second bit about RSS criticism simply fails WP:SPS: User:L.R.N who added this section uses the same nickname as the one used by the sole criticizer in the µtorrent forum thread used as citation. The time of posting there and the time of the editing here further correlates that this is the same person. In addition here is only a single criticizer, employing a XML technique similar to Quirks mode is arguably a violation of a standard and this incident is about the development of the new Beta and not about the latest stable. This doesn't seem significant enough to justify adding it as criticism to the wikipedia article. --Lord Alderaan (talk) 14:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTorrent 1.7.2.png

Image:ΜTorrent 1.7.2.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTris.png

Image:ΜTris.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTorrent 1.7.2.png

Image:ΜTorrent 1.7.2.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ΜTris.png

Image:ΜTris.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)