Talk:Æsir

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More too definite statements about Aesir/Vanir found here, snuck in by Kenneth Allan as minor edits. Martijn faassen 23:00, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Any edit that actually adds or removes content shouldn't be a minor edit. Minor edits are for correcting typos, reordering some words, adding a link, things like that. See Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page. Martijn faassen 21:42, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] As / Os

This article states, that many Old English names with "Os" at their heads are derived from "Os" meaning "god". It then states that "Oscar" is derived from a seperate Gaelic word. The same paragraph states that Scandinavian "As" is the same as "Os" and is also found at the head of names, including the name "Asger" and "Asker". Though Asker is from Old Norse Askr (and Mordern Icelandic Askur) English Oscar is not from Gaelic. It comes from the exact same source as Askur and was originally spelled Osgar, meaning "God's spear", and it is the direct Old English equivalent of Asger and modern Icelandic Ásgeir.

[edit] pronunciation

could we get a phonetic spelling of aesir?

Done. To the best of my knowledge in IPA. Salleman 21:17, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Tyr as god of law and justice?

I think this is creeping in from D&D. In the Forgotten Realms, there's a god of the same name who does embody those virtues, however I'm not aware that this is true of Tyr in Norse mythology. My understanding, and the article here on him, both have him as god of heroism and battle. I'm not confident enough to correct it at this time, but hopefully someone else is.

A lot of authors, I believe Edred Thorsson is one of them, claim with evidence that the "T" rune and the also the god Tyr stands-for/represent oaths, troth, truth, pledges, government, laws, contracts. etc. 67.5.147.235 (talk) 08:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] On words "Ása" and "Vana"

"Ása" is the genitive form of "Æsir", thus meaning "of Æsir". I can hardly see how it can "have a more religious connotation" than "Æsir", as is implied in the text, since it is just the same word in a different declinative form. The same is true for "Vana"/"Vanir". In Icelandic (and Old Norse) two words, one describing the other, are often combined to form a new word such that the main word is attached to the genitive form of the describing word. An example would be "Ásatrú" meaning "Worship of Æsir" or "Vanaheimr" literally meaning "World of Vanir".

--213.176.153.126 10:59, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Æsir or æsir?

Should "Æsir" be written with lower or upper case initial? On one hand, they could be seen as a mythological race, like fairy or nymph and so on, and it should then be "æsir"; on the other hand, they could be seen as a people, like Englishmen or Scotsmen, and then "Æsir" would be correct.

See also Talk:Vanir#Vanir or vanir?. Salleman 4 July 2005 16:04 (UTC)

It's a bit like Internet/internet. Since there is only one, the word describes both the thing and the kind. I think that in such cases you usually use a capital. Note also that that people usually say "the Æsir" rather than just "Æsir". Based on this admittedly hand-waving argument, I'd say: keep the capital. Shinobu (talk) 10:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ansuz from North Caucasian (Iberian-Hurrian) 'amssV "God, Sky, Cloud"

Khattian "ESH-TAN" God of Sun; Yenissean Languages esh, es "God"; Nakh-Daghestanian Languages: as "Nobility, Conscience, God" (Lakian); "Autority, Virtue" (Avarian); Tsezian as, Gunzebian has "Sky, Cloud"; Chechenian "asar" Enthusiasm; Tabasaranian ams, Rutulian asiy "Cloud,Mist" (Hurrian ESHI "God") Nikolayev N.S., Starostin S.A. North Caucasian etymological dictionary. Moscow. 1994--80.237.10.233 10:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Starostin's claims are interesting indeed, but are very disputed among linguists. Thus, the information should not be added to the page itself... just in case, anyone plans to do this. — N-true 22:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Leipziger, du selbst mach es bitte. als Nordkausier-true du sollst es machen.das ist deine nationale nordkaukasische Mission!!! ;-)
I'm German, not Caucasian. —N-true 03:10, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Loki?

Loki's page says: "[He] was not a member of Vanir and is not always counted among the Æsir, the two groupings of gods. Sources inconsistently place him among the Æsir; however, this may only be due to his close relation with Odin and the amount of time that he spends among the Æsir (as opposed to his own kin)." - should the list on this page include a note to that effect, or is the information on Loki in need of a change? -Grey Knight 23:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Info updated in this article, thanks for pointing that out.
—Asatruer— 03:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Loki is a proto-typical trickster deity. Tricksters are never part of the "official" heaven or pantheon and are only accepted in by the "rightful" celestials under certain conditions or by means of deceception, often enough they are closer to demons than actual gods. However, as Grey Knight has pointed out correctly, Loki is not even a Vanir. In fact, his close ties to shamanistic seid reveal him as what he really is; he is an artifact of a neolithic shamanic religion even more ancient than Aesir and Vanir as it was still practiced during historical times by Saami tribes. Traces of this archaic shamanism had been incorporated into Vanir religion prior to the Indo-European invasion that had subsequently introduced the Aesir elements. --Tlatosmd 03:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How do you write it like that?

How does one write "Aesir" with the "A" melting into the "E" like that?

By pushing the Æ button of course :) Haukur 17:33, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Right below the edit box, there's a huge "insert" section, where you can choose between hundreds of characters, including Ææ. Just push it, and it appears. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 16:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Lacking a special Æ button, you can press AltGr + Z. Shinobu (talk) 10:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The a-rune

I just wanted to point out that Odin in some other articles is associated with Mercury, and rather Tyr with Jupiter. See these references to Woden and Tiwaz, respectively. --Trakon (talk) 09:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

This goes back to modern writers following Roman interpretation, as many Roman ideas about the Germanic peoples survived (via the written medium) but the pre-Christian Germanic perception of themselves did not. 67.5.147.235 (talk) 08:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move to singular

per WP convention, shouldn't we move this article to either Áss or Ós? dab (𒁳) 10:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Romans and Sabines in Norse myth, really?

Another historical perspective is that the inter-pantheon interaction may be an apotheosization of the conflict between the Romans and the Sabines.

It seems to me very unlikely that the conflict between the Romans and the Sabines would enter into Nordic religious lore. Of course I don't have the reference cited, perhaps someone who has could check, but I really doubt that is what it says. What I think was meant that the conflict between the Æsir and Vanir parallels the conflict between the Romans and the Sabines, which both could be a "remembrance" of an earlier conflict, like between the Indo-Europeans and earlier inhabitants, although I should note at this point that The Rape of the Sabine Women doesn't mention this at all. Shinobu (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)