Talk:United States–Mexico border

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the United States–Mexico border article.
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I deleted the part about "80% of americans" beeing hostile to immigration. No source for statistics means no credibility, and besides that is biaised.

Abivingston, 8 october 05

Could someone please fix the article, its rather messed up right now

Contents

[edit] Unsourced material

  • Indeed, in mid-2005, increased security at the borders — inhibited the flow of seasonal illegal-immigrant workers to the degree that major agricultural operations in the US Southwest exerted extreme political pressure to have patrols stopped in certain sectors, so that workers could pass.

This sentence makes several factual assertions that we need to source. Until then I'm pulling it from the article. -Willmcw 20:23, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Most frequently crossed international border in the world

The article says:

It is the most frequently crossed international border in the world.

Can anybody confirm this with a source? How many people cross each hour? Edward 15:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The White House [1] describes it as "the busiest in the world" and gives a total of 300 million people using it to enter the USA a year. The Centers for Disease Control agree [2] and give figures of between 250 & 400 m. The US embassy in Mexico City [3] says 350 million people legally cross from one country to the other every year. A million a day? –Hajor 15:38, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Length of border

The article gives the length of the border as 3,141 km. However, much of the US-Mexican border runs along the course of the Rio Grande, and as Lewis Fry Richardson and Benoit Mandelbrot noted (the latter in the paper How Long Is the Coast of Britain?) natural features like coastlines, rivers, and watersheds, may not have well-defined lengths: their measured lengths can depend on the lengths of the rulers used to measure them. So this quoted length needs to qualified with either a source, for example "the US Geographical Survey give the length as ...", or else a description of how it was determined, for example, "using a 1 cm ruler on a 1:500,000 scale map, the length is approximately ...". Gdr 17:19, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Under the treaties, the border follows the deepest channel in the river. But, yeah, the figures could do with sourcing. –Hajor 18:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Border town pairs

The order was inconsistent. All of the American towns will now be first.---Clpalmore, 2 Jan. 2006

[edit] Dont merge it with the Mexico Border Barrier article

IMHO, such as move would be a mistake. There is a clear difference between a border and a barrier used to enforce that border. --Wump 03:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Why can't we include physical barrier as another section of the border? To me, that makes sense. --MPD01605 00:22, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we shouldn't merge the articles until when the barrier becomes a reality (if it does), or just have a mini-article about it like it does now. 69.109.188.59 02:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
The barrier is a reality. The barrier is PART of the border. --MPD01605 03:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Feb' 06 vote

The article says

In December, 2005, the U.S. House of Representatives voted for to build a separation barrier along parts of the border. A companion vote is scheduled for February, 2006, in the Senate. Proponents hope that the barrier will stem the flood of illegal immigration into the United States.

What happened in the vote? Thanks, Pcb21 Pete 12:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

There can't be a seperate article, because people looking for the barrier will see the "border" title, and immediately be discouraged that there is not specific "barrier" information...they are two seperate things —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.174.171 (talk • contribs)

But the barrier is part of the border.--MPD01605 16:43, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Procedures for crossing the border

I'd like to hear more about how citizens cross the border legally. Are all people driving across the border stopped, or only some people? Do I need a passport to go from the US to Mexico? -- Creidieki 17:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

If you are a US Citizen crossing the US-Mexico border you do not need a passport. Citizens legally cross by going through one of the declared points of entry, in Texas this is usually a bridge of some sort. . Upon arriving at the US side costoms inquires as to your nationality. You may be asked to show or declare anything you are bringing across the border. If you are coming across in a car you may be required to pull over for random inspections, and dogs are frequently used to check for illegal goods (like certain fruits, drugs, etc). Once you clear the check point thats it, your on US soil. TomStar81 03:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
As a Mexican, I have legally crossed the border thousands of times to go shopping in Laredo, Texas and return to Mexico. The most current procedure for Mexicans is as follows:
  • You get to the line of cars waiting to be passed through the border. (Could be 15 minutes, could be 5 hours, depending on whats going on in the day. 2 hours is the average time I have waited in the Nuevo Laredo bridge).
  • After the wait, you go into one of the inspection booths. In the aforementioned Laredo bridge, there are up to 15 booths, but usually only two or three are operational. There, an inspection officer will ask to see your passport and visa. If you are only going to the border, he'll stamp your passport and let you in. He may also ask to inspect your vehicle, declare anything bringing across the border, or deny you entry at his discretion and without explaining to you why he is doing such things.
  • If you are not staying in the border, but are going more deeply into the US, (like San Antonio), then you have to park your car, get off, and into the immigration office.
  • More often than not, the line to immigration will be enormous, at least an hour wait. The office is equipped with one or two officers that look like they could need a break. They again inspect your visa, your passport, and ask you the same questions that the guy in the booth has already asked you. Here, you are required to pay a fee (I think it is $8 USD) for a stamp in your passport. The officer can also deny you entry and return you to Mexico.
  • After 6 hours of wait, two of them standing in line in the heat, and paying a fee, you are now free to enter the USA to do some shopping and benefit the American economy.
I mean, I understand why Americans are harsh on illegal immigrants, but I could never understand why they had to make it so uncomfortable for foreign consumers to go and spend money in the border...
12.9.138.10 21:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

These details are great! But, they belong on Wikitravel, not Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a guide. --Una Smith (talk) 23:44, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citing Sources

Arizona and New Mexico have currently declared the counties that border Mexico to be a threat, thereby enabling goveners to deploy National Guardsmen to the international border; Arizona has exercised this option but New Mexico has not.

I understand the reson that the cite tag was placed on this sentence, but I am taking this information from local TV news reports. I do not known where I would find that information in a print form. For what its worth this information is based on an KVIA ABC 7 news report that aired at 10:00pm 17 March 2006. TomStar81 03:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I put it there. I just hadn't heard about anything like that. It's fine, I don't mind leaving it, just curious what the source was. You can remove it if you'd wish, or maybe someone will come along with another source. It's up to you. But thank you for the info. --MPD01605 (T / C) 03:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent bills/acts

Why aren't acts currently on the floor of the house and senate as I type (namely H.R. 4830, H.R. 6095, and H.R. 6094 in the House and the secure fence act in the senate) talked about anywhere in this article!! They are quite important, as the three house bills have just passed, and monday the SFA could pass the senate! Could someone get to doing this, or atleast make/find an appropriate article to put them in. Thanks. → JARED (t)  20:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name of Article?

Why is this article named the United States-Mexico border? Why that order, shouldn't it be Mexico-United States border on principal of alphabetically order? Why is it this order? The article for Canada-US is, just that order, Canada first. Why not the same here? -Swarve 08:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Fine by me. -Will Beback · † · 10:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok guess so, seeing as the US is the most important country in the world, why not. -Swarve 13:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I'd do it myself but the cleanup of the resulting double-redirects is going to be a big job. -Will Beback · † · 18:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Border protection vs. Economic activity

I am appaled to see that the sections regarding ways that the border could be protected against the neighbour are huge, but the sections that talk about how the border economy works is so small... At the very least, I'd say that this is a content bias. 12.9.138.10 21:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American incursions into Mexico

Have there be any American government incursions into Mexico? This isn't mentioned Nil Einne (talk) 10:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

see List of United States military history events -- Boracay Bill (talk) 13:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Related to the last of them, see the Cabalgata Binacional Villista on Cavalcade. --Una Smith (talk) 23:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name of Article - round 2

A few sections up there was a brief discussion about changing the name of this article to "Mexico-United States border". That was back in November 2006. Does anybody know if the name was ever actually changed, and if so, when & why it was changed back? Cgingold (talk) 10:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)