Talk:The Presidents (song)

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I've tagged this as a copyright violation because of the full song lyrics. This needs to be addressed - preferably by way of writing about them without actually quoting them.

Also, there's an additional question of whether this song is notable enough to be included on Wikipedia. This needs to be addressed swiftly as well to avoid having the article deleted on those grounds.

Nerwen 23:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I think this song is notable enough. The Animaniacs used to be and to some extent are still very popular cartoon characters, and their associated cartoons/songs and memorabilia are well known. I see no reasonable argument to suggest that this article be deleted on terms of its lack of notability. In terms of copyright infringement, I was not aware that including the lyrics here would be against any laws. I quickly went to the We Didn't Start the Fire article, because that is from where I got the idea to provide an explanation for each stanza, and only with this problem in mind did I realize that the items in the song are written out with full first and last names and the places are referred to in more complete terms, thus avoiding a problem. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 02:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The Billy Joel article's format looks like a good way to approach the lyrics explanations for here, too. Basically you want to end up with something that bears no resemblance to the original lyrics.

As for notability, it's not me that you have to argue with. There were some admins unfamiliar with Wikipedia song articles who wanted me to AfD it because nothing in it explicitly explains why the song is notable. So it might be good to fix that sooner rather than later, now that the copyvio tag will probably bring some attention from people who don't spend much time on songs.

Nerwen 01:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

OK...I rewrote the article. I hope this helps.

And in terms of notability, this song was sung on television as part of at least one episode of the Animaniacs, and it's included on a number of albums, as indicated in the article. The song references the Presidents of the United States, who are indeed all notable, and the song is published in both video and audio formats, having been in a television episode and available on tape and/or CD. What else, exactly, do you want for notability? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 20:49, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, for song articles, notability is mainly measured by whether it ever made it onto any charts (e.g. "We Didn't Start the Fire" reached #1), and/or whether it gets referenced by a lot of other things independent of whatever it was from (e.g. "The Lonely Goatherd" from The Sound of Music), and/or it had some sort of significant influence on the development of anything or anyone notable (e.g. "due directly to listening to this song as a child, I became a president of the U.S."). Has anyone who isn't an Animaniacs fan heard of this song? Are there pop culture references to this song that aren't directly related to Animaniacs? Has it been used as an important educational tool?

Notability of a song isn't based on whether the album it's on was notable, whether the show it's from was notable, or whether anything the song mentions was notable. Those can all be notable without the song being notable. For example, although the Storm Front album was notable, there are songs on it that don't merit their own articles.

I hope that helps clarify things. Nerwen 00:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The only reason I know the POTUS in order is because of this song. I'd say it's a very important educational tool. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 01:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

See if you can find some cites about its use in educational settings then. :) I remember seeing posters of Billy Joel's song in history classrooms... Nerwen 17:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)