Talk:Sivaji (film)

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Archives: Archive 1 ( - June 2007)

Contents

[edit] Request before any edits

Hi., i am requesting all editors of the article to give a couple of days to clean up this article. i know that this article has undergone major edit wars but i felt that the article has a lot of data collected. I am sure that there are a lot of people who want their opinions heard, but i am asking for you to hold off triggering an edit war for a couple of days. Once i remove the "IN USE" tag, you are free to criticize/critic. --Kalyan 17:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The template that you have placed is supposed to be there only for a short while and not for days. And even the template {{underconstruction}} is designed only to avoid edit conflicts. Both these templates are not be used as an excuse or work around for keeping junk in the article. Remove all non-RS references, fake references, fan sites, blogs, etc from the article and cleanup claims made based on those references. As of now, this article is pure junk. Gnanapiti 20:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Is it too much of me to ask for "Good faith"? Please understand it takes time to clean-up a page as long as what has been put up there. --Kalyan 05:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Why is the title Sivaji (film) instead the title should be Sivaji: The Boss?. It needs a page move ASAP --SkyWalker 07:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I think the movie can be moved to Sivaji: The Boss. --Kalyan 09:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

It was Sivaji: The Boss before User:Sarvagnya moved it without discussion.
"Sivaji" is the name of the movie. "The Boss" is the tagline. Articles are created using the film names, not the taglines included. KKKG is Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham, not "Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham - its all about loving your parents" ! Sarvagnya 23:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with your moving to sivaji. The boss is not just the tagline it is the title of the film. You just dont call it has sivaji. It is called sivaji: the boss. --SkyWalker 06:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
And Also even the official site call it has Sivaji: The Boss and it does not say anything like the boss is a tagline. It is just say Sivaji: The Boss. I hope you will correct your own mistake and move this page too Sivaji: The Boss. I can do it myself but i dont what to start a moving war. So i prefer you to do it first. --SkyWalker 06:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Its common for movie sites to mention taglines in the same breath as the movie name.. but that doesnt make a tagline a part of the movie's name. Anyway, IMDB says that "Sivaji" is the name and "boss" is the tagline. Sarvagnya 06:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The link i showed you is a official link not some movie sites. If you are going to show IMDB link it is like wiki based info. IMDB is not reliable to show info. Any one can edit it. --SkyWalker 07:05, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The article have been renamed again to Sivaji: The Boss. --SkyWalker 15:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
For heavens' sakes.. even this article says that 'TB' is the tagline! You've even given a citation! Sarvagnya 18:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Ok.. here's The Hindu saying it. Sarvagnya 18:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok after seeing the Hindu it may be evidential but I do not believe that all newspapers are reliable resources. Even if it is a tagline it may be mentioned in the article.--59.184.125.134 10:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A nice review.

Very unusual. [1] AVTN 20:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Budget and translation.

40 crores has been translated as 4 million USD. 40 crores INR is 10 million USD in reality, not 4 million. Can anyone correct this?

[edit] Links for box-office

Please excuse the barrage of links, but they are all mostly relevant and from RS. I wanted to expand on the box-office section and collected data from various sources (most prominently from an online fan club, but I picked links that were from reputed sources). Unfortunately, I'm busy with a couple of other articles, so I'm leaving it to the other editors to convert this random collection of data into meaningful prose.

[edit] India Opening

  • All-india advance booking
    • nearly Rs 2.5 crore in just advance bookings nationwide
  • CNN-IBN chennai opening
    • Sivaji is set for release in 18 halls across chennai June 15
    • Most theatres were forced to post additional security, fearing fights. There was a mad frenzy for tickets ever since the theatres started advance booking for the movie and most theatres had exhausted their tickets on Sunday itself.
  • CNN-IBN All India opening
    • 100% opening across India
  • IBN opening
    • Sivaji has been released over an estimated 850-900 screens worldwide, the largest for an Indian film
    • In every country where the film has been released, tickets have already been sold out for the first two weeks, and even more in the case of Malaysia.
    • Record crowds in National Capital region, including Noida and Gurgaon.
  • CNN-IBN All India opening
    • 1,000 cinema halls
    • sold out for the next three weeks at theatres in Chennai.
    • Reportedly shot for Rs 80 crore
    • The Telugu rights of Sivaji were sold for Rs 14 crore
    • Even in northern India, the response to the film was "remarkable"
  • Fin. Express Mumbai opening
    • Cineplex, Inox and Fun republic
    • 95-100% occupancy on weekends and 65% on weekdays
  • TOI Bangalore
    • fetched more money than any other non-Kannada film screened in Bangalore in the last two years
    • 11 lakhs per day on Tax
  • Pune opening
    • Every theatre from Inox, E-Square, City Pride to Gold Adlabs and Fame (Pimpri Chinchwad) has deemed it fit to have preview shows
    • While the multiplex will screen no less than 12 shows over the weekend, five of these will be on their main screen, which has a seating capacity of 600—an honour reserved only for the most mammoth of them all
  • ScreenIndia, Indianexpress group All-India opening
    • considerable interest even among Maharashtrians, Gujaratis, Bengalis, Biharis and the North Indians.
    • Mumbai opened with an unprecedented 17 prints
    • Hindi dubbed versions too might be out by the end of the month
    • Centres like Indore, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, Kanpur, Lucknow and Kolkata to be opened in 2nd week
    • Never before has a regional film scored this big outside home territory
    • Chennai: Tickets were sold out in minutes for three weeks, Rs 1.70 crore on advance booking alone
    • 500 cinemas in Tamil nadu
    • Andhra Pradesh: 350 theatres with 270 prints, a record for a dubbed film.
    • Kerala, shows started as early as 5 a.m. This is the first time that a non-Malayalam film has been released in 86 theatres across the state.
  • The Telegraph Kolkata opening
    • opened at all four city multiplexes
    • Sivaji is the biggest release in Calcutta this Friday
  • AP opening
    • 2.75 Crores in 4 days in just the Nizam area
    • In Nizam 90 in about 90 theatres. 42 theatres alone are in Hyderabad
  • Pune opening
    • A total of 20 shows are running in Pune each day
    • the first time we are screening four shows everyday of a non-Marathi regional movie
  • Baroda opening
    • The Boss conquers Barodians, even those who don't know Tamil, as the actor's latest film Sivaji opens to a full house

[edit] Worldwide Opening

  • Singapore opening, from Reuters' reporter
    • 15 screenings in Singapore
    • Sivaji’ is expected to break the record for being the most screened Indian-language movie in theatres across the world
  • Hindu on Gulf opening
    • Dubai laborers watching it for free
    • Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Sharjah are fully booked for the next two weeks. In Bahrain, it is the only movie being shown at two theatres and tickets are being sold in black
  • Chicago opening
  • Business standard Woldwide opening
    • Sivaji collected Rs 1.7 crore on the first day of its release
    • Debuted at 9th position in UK
  • Economic times Chennai+Worldwide opening
    • 1.35 crore in the first four days, which will be a record for any city across the country
    • Chennai’s distribution rights were sold for Rs 6.5 crore
    • (Page-2) UK average per-screen collection of £14,050. This is the highest per screen average for any movie in the UK so far in 2007
  • Qatar unprecedented response
    • General Manager of the Qatar Film Distr. Company : To my knowledge, no other film in Qatar has ever generated the kind of response that Sivaji has
  • Sri Lanka opening
    • 41 shows a day in seven theatres across the island, with all shows running to full houses
    • The Cine City multiplex in downtown Maradana has 20 shows a day

[edit] 2nd week

  • Delhi 2nd week
    • was released in only two multiplexes in Delhi and one in Gurgaon last week, is now being screened in more than 12 halls across the capital.
    • Cuttingwe have increased the number of screens and number of shows in the northern region across language barrier north Indians too are coming in large numbers to catch the action
    • "we have increased the number of screens and number of shows in the northern region"
  • AP opening box-office rank
    • Sivaji opened at number one spot in box-office, even ahead of Telugu films.
    • It is expected that the film will stay in the number-one slot at least until the end of this month.
  • Kolkata opening report
    • was the most-watched film at the plexes this weekend
    • Over the weekend, Sivaji recorded an average occupancy of 70 per cent at the plexes, a first for a regional film and that, too, one with no subtitles.
  • TN 10-day collection (Tamil link)
    • 30 crores in 10 days
  • Yahoo All-India response
    • For the first time perhaps in the history of regional cinema Sivaji - The Boss starring superstar Rajinikanth has managed to go beyond the Tamil-speaking audience and make its presence felt pan-India and beyond.

[edit] After 3 weeks

[edit] General

Lotlil 06:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the data. I used them to create the section on Box-office performance. Please note that i have only used "reliable" sources and avoided any controversial sources. --Kalyan 08:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lengthy

This article is way too long. It is 73 kilobytes. In comparison, The Matrix is 35kb, The Lord of the Rings is 35kb, Lage Raho Munna Bhai (a featured article) is 58kb and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End is 36kb. I just listed a few major feature films of the recent past to give us a scale of reference. Anyways, the article takes an immense amount of time to load on a super-fast connection (My connection's upwards of 1Mbps). We need to reduce it. By reduce, I do not mean simply remove. I mean we can cut out information which is irrelevant to the nature of the article. aJCfreak yAk 10:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi, i volunteered for a copyedit and reduction of the article size but there is no stoppage of edits from other folks and hence i have kept out till things settle down and then i plan to work on the article. --Kalyan 10:30, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on it....by setting up new pages for the mass info and keeping the key info to the main page! Universal Hero 11:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fake "in use" tag

Please do not add "in use" tag and keep it for over a week. The above boc office sources are blogs and violates WP:RS. Anwar 11:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you were referring to the links I've added in the talk page above. But, the sources are Hindu, CNN-IBN, Times of India, Indian Express and the likes. Not blogs. Lotlil 12:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
No, I was referring apunkachoice.com, thatstamil.com, telugucinema.com, nowrunning.com. These websites do not quote official sources. Where do they get this trade info from? Distributor's testimonials are obviously biassed. Incase you are unaware, Yahoo is a news syndicate, not a news source. Also, consider reading Wikipedia policy on self-published online and offline sources. Anwar 15:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
While I don't agree these websites are "blogs" by any stretch, they still make up only 4 out of the 25+ links I've quoted. I know Yahoo is a syndicate, but if you look at the link you will know they attribute it to the original source, which is CNN-IBN. I gave the yahoo link becuase that was my primary source. If you want to ignore those four sources (nowrunning.com etc.) until we can establish reliability, I'm fine with that. Also, remember biased sources and reliable sources are two different things. Lotlil 15:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

'STRONG PROTESTING YOUR ACTION: Hi Anwar., please check here - the tag at the time you reverted back to some revision didn't have the {{inuse}} tag but {{underconstruction}} tag. If you had read the talk page, you would have noticed that i asked for edit wars to stop before i resume my copyedit of this article - something i am sad to say, has not been heeded by a lot of folks. So i strongly advise you to check your facts before you make changes/remarks. --Kalyan 13:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC) (I have posted the same message in the talk page as well!)

[edit] Flop show

Sify.com says distributors would incur losses due to exorbitant pricing.[2] Anwar 16:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The Sify slideshow states 1 Sivaji- Classification- Hit.: Reason- Made at an exorbitant cost, and sold to distributors at record prices some of them may recover their cost, while others may just not cover their amount. Took extraordinary record opening, with large number of prints, which makes it a hit. How does it make it a flop show?--Kalyan 17:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

In Jaya TV, Abirami Theatres Ramanathan had mentioned that Sivaji had to remain houseful for 50 says in all the theatres (15 at that time) for recovering the cost of Rs.65 million (for Chennai). Anwar 16:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

That is speculative reporting; not based on much facts and figures. It has not even been a month since the movie released. Please give it time. For example, Superman Returns crossed the $200 million revenue mark only four months after its release. It is one of the slowest to do so. Give it time. Btw, if you have verifiable, reliable content to include - please go ahead. Happy Wikifying the article, folks! aJCfreak yAk 16:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Thala's Kreedam is replacing Sivaji next month in both the gigantic multiplexes - Sathyam and Devi! Ticket rates in Tamil Nadu have been dramatically reduced (by 85%) since 2006. This was the killer blow. In Andhra market too, Sivaji has slowed down.[3] Kreedam audio sales has overtaken Sivaji last week. Anwar 10:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

That is because the Sivaji audio has been running for 3 months non-stop at the top-a record itself. Universal Hero 10:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Sivaji is now removed from all screens in Trivandrum and Ernakulam in Kerala (after just 5 weeks). Several distributors in Tamil Nadu face huge losses and unlikely to recover even Minimum Guarantee. Attendance averages 35% on weekends - Nellai, Madurai, Vellore, Kaaraikudi, Dindigul, Thiruvannamalai Anwar 11:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Kreedam dismantles Sivaji from top slot opening at 110 shows daily in Chennai. Anwar 2:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Did something change at nowrunning.com in the last few weeks ? Sometime back you mentioned, that the website is not RS. Lotlil 13:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I am dissapointed!

You all are adults (most of you atleast). Please do this in a decent and civilized fashion. Please don't mass remove and mass add without making any progress on the article. This is probably the last thing I do on Wikipedia. This article and the actions of its editors were a contributing factor to my early retirement. Although I do not blame them anymore, as my retirement is now decided.

Hopefully, you all will work together to make a wonderful article for the Rajini-sir. This article is the first thing that is linked from google. Pretty much everyone online who is tamil has seen this article.

Please work together and make this article what it should be, INFORMATIVE!

And I say good-bye. I will take my leave from this place, you all can contact me via e-mail if you need any help.

AVTN 21:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] THIS IS THE TEMPLATE OF THE ARTICLE

  • This edition has been approved by several experienced editors.
  • Now it's time to source properly.
  • And add a Critical reception section to the Reception section.
  • And maybe a Themes section.

Universal Hero 11:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Glad to see you guys are making steady progress on the article. We could also add couple more sub-sections :(1) High-profile screenings (2) Controversies. I know there were special screenings for politicians and celebrities - apart from Karunanidhi and JJ, there was CBN in AP, Rajkumar family and Ambareesh in Ktaka, Amitabh and also the president of Maldives. We could add the controversies such as leaking of the songs, "accidental" death of a technician in the farewell party, allegation of plagiarism on Shankar and the recent lawsuit by a Congress worker.Lotlil 15:06, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
What are you talking about? Who approved this edition? What about blogs like behindwoods, Tamilstar etc? Gnanapiti 19:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The most recent massive additions from UH to the article seem to be a step backwards. I like going back to the last version by Kalyan and have you guys add one clean section at a time, like you were doing so far. Lotlil 20:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link spam

When there are two sources for box office claims, err on the side of caution and take the most conservative figure only.Anwar 12:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

What was the need to revert the whole darn article if your concern was with the box office section alone ? And, exactly what's your problem in that section - you say "only two sources" are given but in the talk-page edit summary you say "linkspam". Which is it? Lotlil 13:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio image

Stop uploadng again and again copyvio images like Image:Sivaji_Poster.jpg. It was speedied twice before on the same grounds as Image:Sivajirajinishriya.jpg, Image:Sivaji-poster.png, Image:Sivaji-05.jpg, Image:SiovajiW1.jpg, Image:Sivaji_release_PVR-Bangalore.JPG and Image:Siivajicoverin.gif. Wikipedia takes copyright violations seriously. Repeated violations would result in a block if brought to the attention of other administrators.Anwar 13:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Anwar. FYI., the speedy delete notice that you slapped on the Image:Sivaji_Poster.jpg has been DECLINED by an administrator because FAIR USE RATIONALE IS ASSERTED. Consider the matter closed.
To everyone else, please note that you can add screenshots of movies as long as it has FAIR-USE RATIONALE in-line with usage across other movies. --Kalyan 13:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hagiography

Please stop adding speculative claims of box office figures repeatedly. I think it would be better to wait till the year-end to get real picture of the fate of the film after biggies like Kreedam, Bheema, Dasavadharam and Billa are out. This is what happened when Pokiri released. Vijay fans were too quick to claim it as a blockbuster.Anwar 11:17, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Anwar, Can you please let us know why you should not be barred from making any more edits to this article. You have repeatedly violated all "good-faith" norms; acted with almost childish behavior. Moreso, your personal opinion (found here) suggests your utter contempt for the movie and thus can be taken as evidence for putting your personal opinion over and above the behavior required in this forum. All BO claims are from mainstream news organizations and all the sources pass the WP:RS criteria. In comparison, do you want to talk about your edits of the following Ajit's movies - Aalwar (I would love to hear your defense on how the plot section meets copyedit requirements) and Kireedam. If the article "Sivaji" was bad, how can you defend the following statement from Aalwar Ajith should take care on his story selection, he should not accept characters blindly. Ajith is considerably a handsome hero ever produced by Tamil industry, he should take care of his good looks in his movies. It is a watchable movie - Inspite of my repeated copyedits to the article, you have always reverted back to this. Please explain your actions. --Kalyan 11:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
One more point. Where did ever claim that the move was a Box-office BLOCKBUSTER or even an equivalent word. I have only added information as presented in various media articles. Why are you trying to dispute figures from sources like Times of India, The Hindu, Rediff and the likes. How can they be "speculative claims"? --Kalyan 12:48, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] spoiler tag

Hi., i am removing the {{spoiler}} tag because it violates the Wikipedia policy that states Spoiler warnings are usually redundant when used to cover an entire "Plot" or "Synopsis" heading, or fictional "History" headings of any sort in articles whose subject is fictional, since spoilers are to be expected in a plot summary. --Kalyan 12:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cast/casting

What exactly is meant to be the difference between the two sections - Cast and Casting? And why does the "Casting" section talk about rumors and rumor mills? When it comes to showbiz in India or anywhere in the world every tabloid and evening paper has a 'rumor' to circulate. Stick to the facts and remove rumor and speculation. Sarvagnya 16:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian Rating

Hi, here in Canada the rating for Sivaji is 14A.[4]

[edit] GA assessment

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:


1:

  • Only first letter of headings should be capitalized (e.g. “Cast & Crew” should be “Cast & crew).
  • Inconsistent use of American and “Queen’s” English, e.g. “realise” is “Queen’s”, but “picturized” is not. Also, article alternates between “theater” and “theatre”. Language needs to be consistent.
  • Numerous number agreement errors, e.g. “The film’s score and soundtrack was…”, “The names of support cast … was released”, “no other major details … was mentioned”, “he calculates that there is … 20,00,000 [sic] crores”, “several false information … were released”, etc.
  • Inconsistent naming of foundation as “Sivaji Foundation” or “Sivaji Foundations” – sometimes italicized, sometimes not.
  • Incorrect and inconsistent date formats, e.g. “2nd April, 2007”, “17th May 2007, “on April 2, …”, etc. See WP:DATE.
  • Numerous miscellaneous grammar errors, e.g. colon used as full stop, missing or extra periods, missing capitalization, commas not used to offset parenthetical phrases, independent clauses or co-ordinate adjectives, etc.
  • Peacock words, e.g. “tremendous box-office reception”, “excellent fully bald head”, “famous Indian movies”, “made a perfect debut”, etc.
  • Phrasing not appropriate for an encyclopedia article, e.g. “delayed at least a couple of times”, “we see that this…”, “has done throughout the film”, “Despite the fact…”, “surprisingly, the also…”, “was apparently supposed…”, “which supposedly will feature”, “the film reportedly”, etc.
  • Awkward word choice, e.g. "Tamizhselvi is taunted”, “labelled [sic] this song was set to come in the climax”, “the film did not have satisfy the unexpected high expectations”, “the situation changed from 2nd week with theaters playing special shows for even 11th weekend”, etc.
  • Lead does not summarize all sections of the article and contains redundant information.
  • Proper nouns sporadically italicized - inconsistent and only published works should be italicized.

2:

  • The information in the "Cast" section needs citations; additional citations needed elsewhere (e.g. beginning of “unofficial versions” section).
  • NOR violations include, among others, “Arivu … played a key role”, “He … becomes a pivotal factor”, “the role … suffered through the rumor mill”, “A.R. Rahman always does all of his important work in London”, “Surprisingly, they also…”, “as per usual Rajinikanth films…”, etc.

3:

  • Soundtrack and DVD section (essentially just soundtrack section, as DVD has two sentences) is longer than any other section. This section should be broken into a new article and summarized in the film article.
  • Too much information in the box-office section. Information about exact number of screens in different regions/cities is superfluous.
  • "Cast" section contains plot-related information about the characters. This information should be integrated into the plot summary or moved to a “character” section.
  • Name list in “Casting, location and music” is unnecessary detail (too long).
  • Several plot summary issues, e.g. article states “[they] cart away Sivaji’s dead body”; he is, however, not dead. Also, summary abruptly concludes with “Finally the movie ends with Adhiseshan getting killed in a stampede”; does the film not address the fate of the organization and Sivaji’s relationship with Tamizhselvi?

4:

  • Article addresses controversies related to the film’s content, but does not address whether there was negative response to the film as “art” (i.e. negative reviews).
  • Article mentions “protests from pro-kannada groups” but does not elaborate.
  • Article has a laudatory tone exacerbated by NPOV violations, e.g. “tremendous box office reception”, “the film finally opened”, “made a perfect debut”, “open to unsurprisingly full capacity”, “the Sivaji success story”, “the response in Cape Town was disappointing”, etc.

6:

  • The photo “Rajni in the song Athiradee” appears to be a screenshot from the film. The licensing tag, however, states that the uploader is the author and has released the image to the public domain. I’m not satisfied that user:Hedgehog Kanna owns rights to this image.

General:

  • The article reads awkwardly and gives the impression of being patched together by many editors. All of the information is now there, it just needs someone to go through the article and make all elements cohesive. Essentially, it needs a very good polishing. Please let me know if you need elaboration or assistance. Ɛƚƈơƅƅơƚɑ talk 17:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Official and Unofficial versions of Soundtrack heading removed

There is a separate wiki page for the soundtrack of Sivaji. We can put the official and unofficial versions over there as it is more relevant. Putting it in the film section increases the content and size and since there is an alternative page, I removed them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saiwiki08 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Assessment

I will be assessing this article when time permits. Stay tuned. Ncmvocalist (talk) 01:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment/Review being conducted by Ncmvocalist

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
  • Fair use rationale of Sahana sivaji.jpg needs to be detailed like the Sivaji film poster image and the Fans sivaji.jpg image.
  • The Sahana image, and Sivaji-03.jpg need to have full stops at the end of its captions as per MOS.

This article needs to be more focussed - especially the first couple of paragraphs in the lead section. I am finding it difficult to express the issues that are present in the lead section with this regard, however, I can point out that if one reads the first two paragraphs of Bomarillu and one reads the first two paragraphs of this article, there is clearly a difference in the level of focus. Obviously tighter expression will help (and helps address the issue of clear prose), but in this case, it also involves the reorganising of some content. I agree with the choice of using American spelling for this article.

In addition to tightening expression to make the prose clear, grammer needs to be corrected at times. For example, an organization has an aim...it is not to have an aim. ("This organization is to have an aim of building hospitals and educational institutions to serve the poor without any charge.") The sentencing here can also be improved from: "Her family is initially scared by the overbearing nature of Sivaji's family. They eventually accede to Sivaji's request and ask for his horoscope; however, the jaadagam (horoscope) of the two do not match and the astrologer predicts impending doom if the two are united." to "Her family is initially scared by the overbearing nature of Sivaji's family, however, they eventually consider Sivaji's proposal and ask for his jaadagam (horoscope). [accede to Sivaji's request? what request? be clear.]. The astrologer predicts impeding doom leading up to Sivaji's death if the two are united and so Tamizhselvi refuses the proposal. However, Sivaji manages to calm her fears and convinces her to marry him.

Please also ensure that the tense is consistent throughout the article. Again, you may want to check MoS in case there is any relevant material with respect to this.

I am also a little unconvinced that references could only be found in Rediff and The Hindu for certain parts of the article, although, I am pleased that the Economic Times and the Film Classification Board to name a few, were some other references used.

For now, I am putting this article on hold. Please note: although every effort has been made to list as many major issues as possible, other issues more may crop up later once these have been rectified. Best wishes,

Ncmvocalist (talk) 06:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notes in response to the GA review

Firstly, many thanks for taking out time in reviewing the article. I appreciate your efforts.

  1. The Prose has been tightened and the lead section has been re-written.
  2. So is the case with the plot which was improved for sentence structuring. Similar tense was attempted in the section.
  3. About the references, here is a small check I did on the sources
  • The Hindu - 15
  • Rediff - 10
  • CNN-IBN - 4
  • Hindustan Times - 4
  • Economic Times - 3
  • TimesNow - 3
  • Business Standard, Outlook India, BBC, NDTV, Times of India, Apunkachoice, Bizhat, Indiaglitz, Kumudam, Screen India, Indian Express, Zee News, Telegraph India, ABC, OneIndia, moneycontrol, BoxOfficeMojo, Times South Africa, Idlebrain, Businessofcinema, behindwoods, yahoo, tamilstar - Each as a single cite, totaling 23.
I feel that even though 25/70 references come from Rediff and The Hindu, them being reliable sources, due credit have to be given for the content they carry. I feel, the reason why a wealth of information was available in The Hindu is because it is more popular in the South. With Rediff.com, what happened was that it got exclusive rights to interview the cast and crew. That explains a chunk of references from the both. Once again, I request them to be considered as reliable sources.

I hope that I could all that was addressed. If there seems to be anything left out, please do let me know. With best regards, Mspraveen (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

I'm still a little concerned by some parts of the prose - it is perhaps pedantic, but then again.... In the cast section, it reads " His parents are played by Manivannan and Vadivvukarasi respectively " - it can be more clear. Either the word respectively should be omitted, or, the father and mother can be clearly identified. Eg; His father and mother are played by Manivannan and Vadivvukarasi respectively. Another example of a 'bad' sentence: "The credits appear with audience being suggested that Sivaji succeeds with the foundation and achieves what he dreamed of." The use of commas for Suman's bulletpoint could also be improved - why only 1 comma in the whole of the 1st sentence?

Despite the poor expression in these sort of sentences, the article seems quite focussed. Ending the article with a controversies section is rather unusual - why were DVD details omitted? why wasn't the controversies section included in 'release and reception' as a subsection? Ncmvocalist (talk) 01:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Re:

  • Your concerns regarding the prose has been checked and corrected. I agree with you: it definitely looked shabby. I must have overlooked these issues. I reworded a few sentences in plot and cast to appear better.
  • I relocated the Controversies section as a sub-section of the Release and reception section. Also, I felt having the Special screenings subsection right at the top of the section would be appropriate.
  • DVD details have not been included for the very simple reason that it doesn't seem to have released commercially as a DVD. My search yielded nothing close to a DVD purchase in any online store.

I hope all your concerns have been addressed. If any, please do not hesitate to put them forth. With best regards, Mspraveen (talk) 14:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Re: Re:

Some parts of the casting and development section can be improved prose-wise, I think. It is something that we can work on without any major issues. The final sentence in the casting section needs to be referenced. The DVD details is something we may need to add in the future too. Despite these, I am glad to report that this article nomination for good article status has been promoted. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to Good article reassessment. Thank you to all of the editors, notably User:Mspraveen who worked hard to bring it to this status. Congratulations!! Ncmvocalist (talk) 14:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)