Talk:Fleet Admiral (United States)

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Discussion about the title of this article and its recent change can be found at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (acronyms)#Changing article titles from XXXXX (US) to XXXXX (United States). Feel free to contribute. -- hike395 16:23, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Merge proposal

See the discussion on the Admiral of the Navy talk page. --RaiderAspect 06:51, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SERIOUS ERROR ON THIS PAGE

The US Officer Commissioned Officer Ranks box is incorrect. All the ranks have been moved one grade UP, for example, OF 5 has become OF 6 etc. For the correct rank table please see the box at this address http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO_armies_officers where they are all correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Christopherwood (talk • contribs).

[edit] Wartime Only

A number of wikipedia pages suggest that this rank and the other O-11 ranks are to be awarded only during times of war. This is what has happened in reality because they were only used in WWII (and Omar Bradley right before the Korean War), but is there any documentation that there is in fact a US government policy specifying that this rank is to be created only during major wars? According to the page about Henry H. Arnold, he was promoted to an O-11 in 1949, which seems to go against being wartime only. The box at the bottom of all the US military officer pages has a column for the O-11 ranks with the label "wartime only," but it seems inaccurate in light of this. 18.96.6.11 (talk) 05:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Checking, the clear counterexample is Halsey, who was promoted "in December 1945 largely through the efforts of an influential member of Congress, Representative Carl Vinson of Georgia.[citation needed]"
Bradley was promoted during the Korean War; I'd guess to make him equal in rank to MacArthur. Arnold was just given the same rank in the Air Force that he'd held in the Army, and that was just pro forma, since he retired before the Air Force became an separate service.
I don't know if there's any explicit policy, but the post-WWII armed forces simply haven't been large enough to need 5-stars, though it's been suggested for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
—wwoods (talk) 17:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
So if Halsey was the only officer who was promoted to an O-11 grade completely outside of wartime, this is a clear counterexample as you said. All three pages about the US military O-11 ranks say that it is awarded only in wartime. This is not completely true historically (in light of Halsey) and there is no reference to a standing policy that the ranks are only to be used in times of war. Since Congress has to authorize the ranks, it seems doubtful that there is a "wartime only" provision. We would have to identify an act of Congress that says this. Moreover, the fact that the government was considering appointing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to a 5-star grade by merit of holding that office makes it seem like the "wartime only" provision doesn't exist.
Are we absolutely certain that someone didn't misinterpret the fact that most of the 5-star appointments were in wartime? They could have thought this was the rule and their false conclusions could have propagated into all the O-11 wikipedia pages. 18.96.6.11 (talk) 23:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Halsey, Spruance, and Vinson

From the sci.military.naval FAQs:

Section C.6: Five Star Admirals
Section provided by Merlin Dorfman
[snip]
During 1944, Congress authorized the Army and the Navy to appoint four officers each to five-star rank. As of December 16, 1944, the Army appointed Marshall, Eisenhower, MacArthur, and Arnold, and the Navy appointed Leahy, King, and Nimitz. The authorization was never rescinded, and it did not make clear whether the eight could be replaced if they resigned or died--presumably each Service could appoint four today, though there are many political considerations, inculding the role of the Air Force, and if any appointments were made Congress would surely become involved. After Arnold's death in [January] 1950, the Army appointed Omar Bradley, a prominent World War II commander then serving as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, to the vacant billet [in September 1950].
The Navy did not immediately fill its fourth billet because there was not a clear single choice. Of the four-star admirals, the leading candidates were Raymond A. Spruance and William F. Halsey, who alternated as commander of the striking force of the Pacific Fleet. The Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestal, left the choice to King. Both Halsey and Spruance had supporters in Congress; the most influential was Representative Carl Vinson of Georgia, Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, who strongly supported Halsey. After the war was over, in December 1945, the Navy promoted Halsey to five-star rank. Congress passed a special bill authorizing Spruance to be maintained on full pay upon his retirement. (Pay for three-, four-, and five-star ranks is the same; Spruance was the only officer of any service retired at full pay by act of Congress.) After vacancies occurred in the ranks of Fleet Admiral with the deaths of King in 1956 and Halsey in 1959, there were efforts in Congress to promote Spruance; Vinson thwarted them all. After Vinson's retirement the Navy did not want to reopen the issue, given Spruance's recognition by the special retirement status described above.
With the death of Bradley there are no five-star officers left, and it appears that there may never be any again.

—WWoods (talk) 21:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)