Talk:António Egas Moniz

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The article treats Moniz positively, even though his methods are still controversial. The idea that the U.S. version of the procedure is somehow more crude than Moniz's is without citation and probably incorrect. Whoever contributed this text likely thinks positively of Moniz--what we need is a NPOV discussion of the controversy of his procedures. 65.96.175.245 (talk) 21:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, which is why I flagged those statements for citation. That Freeman resorted to lobotomy with excessive zeal is without question, but to say he used it indiscriminately is, I think, an overstatement. If you read his notes it's obvious he did at least have some criteria in selecting patients for the procedure. There is also way too much conflicting information about Moniz' death, particularly whether or not a former patient was involved in it. IMO this article would benefit from a complete rewrite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.215.132.137 (talk) 16:35, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Egas Moniz was a *scientist*. His foremost contribution to medicine was the development of cerebral angiography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_angiography). It's one thing to have a rightful axe to grind against barbaric surgical practices, but quite another to smear a person's reputation by equating that person with the practice. I guess Egas Moniz is an interesting target, since he wasn't an american, not even a northern european! How could the 'US version' of his procedure possibly be more crude, really? That must be 'probably incorrect'! A hint: Egas Moniz didn't work with ice-picks. And he reserved it only for very specific and limited cases with no alternatives (http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n02/historia/lobotomy.htm). Go read on the history of the procedure(s). As for his death, he died aged 81. It's hardly surprising that he had been attacked by a patient more than a decade before - he spent his life among patients, some of whom violent, trying to find solutions for their problems. For many of which he did. His devotion was to people who suffered, Portugal wasn't a country where physicians rose to stardom and wealth by performing surgeries for showbiz. 85.243.91.24 (talk) 23:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

"I guess Egas Moniz is an interesting target, since he wasn't an american, not even a northern european! How could the 'US version' of his procedure possibly be more crude, really? That must be 'probably incorrect'! A hint: Egas Moniz didn't work with ice-picks."

Well Freeman didn't squirt alcohol directly into healthy brain tissue either, so I guess it's a draw as to which of them used the more crude procedure. The whole comment about the "US version" being more crude is for one thing non-factual as there is no objective basis for such an assertion, but really that is secondary as it seems evident that the true purpose of the comment was a sort of couched anti-Americanism -- meant to convey an image of the meticulous, responsible European scientist (Moniz) vs. a loud, hasty American braggart (Freeman). Encyclopedia articles are meant to convey verifiable facts, not to serve as a springboard for advocacy. The article should portray Moniz in neither a positive nor negative light. SquareWave (talk) 21:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)